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Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

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Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#801

Post by carapace »

tempestn wrote: post #506
snowwrestler wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American pluralism, which the GP post was talking about, is the belief that people of many backgrounds can come together as equals and build a society together. Trump's focus on the Mexican heritage of an American judge (who was born in Chicago, Illinois, USA BTW) is a textbook attack on that idea.

I was responding specifically to this line: "Trump confirmed his own opposition to people of Mexican descent when he said judge Gonzalo Curiel had a conflict of interest." I don't believe that particular incident is strong evidence that Trump opposes people of Mexican descent in general. I can understand his belief that a person of Mexican descent would not like him. I don't like him myself, nor do I agree with any o…

What snowwrestler says: Trump says an American Judge, whose job it is to be impartial and judge things, can't do his job because he's Mexican-American. That's messed up.

Sure, we can understand if the Judge has some personal feelings, but we also understand that he's going to set them aside and be impartial in his judgement because he's been made a JUDGE! We presume that the folks who gave him that authority did so because they thought and felt that he would be good at it. (And not "despite being a Mexican"!!)

Trump's B.S. undermines the whole concept of impartial Justice. It drives a wedge into the fundamental values of our government. And it's pretty racist against Mexicans and Mexican-Americans. It was a hell of a thing to say when he was just the joke candidate, and it's all the more dismaying now that he's the Joke President.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#802

Post by glenndebacker »

masondixon wrote: post #632
cyphax wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Such as? Well, I'm thinking mostly same sex marriage, maybe the freedom of religion (which seems to be OK for most, unless you're a muslim). Trump promises a conservative SCOTUS nomination, so everything that comes out of that as a side effect has a risk of people's rights being take away, mostly the progress made under the Obama administration > I'm not talking about Trump listening. I'm talking about liberals lis…

> Same sex marriage Trump: The Supreme Court has issued an opinion on this. Same-sex marriage is an issue that should have been decided by the states. There are many LGBT supporters of Trump. Milo Yiannopolous is a hero amongst all Trump supporters, and he is gay. The world has moved on - Democrats just want something to be angry about. > Freedom of religion It is about terrorism and not about religion. > He would "s…

"We are called racist, but no one is racist. We are called xenophobic, but all we are asking for is that the laws are upheld."

I can't comment for the States as I live in Europe... but 99% of the big vocal trump supporters at this side of the ocean are racist and xenophobic like there is no tomorrow. In this country the only political trump supporters are the ones that has historic ties with the nazi's. That the most vocal European Trump supporters at political sides are in most case from extreme right political parties is also very telling.

So yeah it could be that you aren't racist or xenophobic but his message also really speaks to racist all over the world and that is fact.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#803

Post by masondixon »

jbob2000 wrote: post #649
masondixon wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I promise not to argue against you, and certainly not to slur you. Please argue! And thank you for not slurring :) > Would you be willing to articulate your argument for Trump here? I supported Obama. I always considered myself a liberal. I support gay marriage, I support gun control. I support universal health care. I support decent welfare and a safety net. As a programmer, the formative moment for my Trump suppo…

You've hit the nail on the head. Liberalism has spent the last 10 years being the language and thought police. Where is the liberalism that brought us social security and desegregation? Why isn't liberalism talking about and fighting for basic income? None of that, just "use phrases and words as I want you to". I am reminded of a common quip, which I am going to modify: First they came for the word nigger, and I stop…

Haha.

Its such a waste of energy. There are real problems and its such a diversion. I think its social justice bikeshedding. Its easy and they think they are making a difference.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#804

Post by DLA »

This thread is sad. We are ALL Americans. President-elect Trump is OUR president. You know how we can make this next four years a success for all of us, realize the Constitution sets out a process for how we elect our leaders. Go read it. No really, now many of the people burning flags, talking about "end of days" BS, and other nonsense have ever read the Constitution? Let alone swore an oath to defend it? Yeah. As I suspected.

Stop the hate online. Stop the hate in the streets. Stop talking about states leaving the union (not going to happen). Stop judging people for their choice--voting freedom is sacred. Many have died defending it. Regardless of how you voted get behind the President of the United States of America. America is still the greatest nation the world has ever known. If we all work together and stop this hate, America will be become even better.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#805

Post by masondixon »

mbesto wrote: post #703
masondixon wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you were willing to potentially sacrifice women's rights, minorities rights, lgbt+ rights, the environment, business regulations, and whatever else conservative Trump appointments might do? You see how here you are saying that I am in favour of sacrificing womens, minorities, lgbt, etc. rights. You see how it is basically saying: You are are a sexist, misogynist, racist? Why don't you ask me what I think about thos…

> Why don't we have a debate on illegal immigration? Correct me if I'm wrong, but while you personally may want to have a debate about illegal immigration, the person who you support to represent you (Trump) does not want to debate. He just wants to make a sweeping change without anyone in his path.

The people elect the president.

The people had the time to debate. We had the referendum. So now we live with it.

If you weren't busy calling everyone xenophobes maybe you would have got some support and won the senate and we could discuss it more.

Next time...

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#806

Post by mch82 »

Prefinem wrote: post #779
mch82 wrote: post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main lesson learned from Trump's campaign is that "rational" is far less important than "belief" and "story". Here's what seems irrational from my perspective: 1. Bob votes to elect Mike Pence, who takes the position "Homosexuality is incompatible with military service" [mikepence.com] 2. Dan, who is homosexual and in the military and Facebook friends with Bob since they started hanging out in college, finds out…

6. Dan doesn't understand or empathize with Bob that while Bob may or may not approve just one aspect of a politician but that believes Pence is better than 'x' and thus is also a bigot.

I think that's where we disagree.

Given, Dan can't change the fact he's gay.

Given, Mike Pence has formally expressed that "Homosexuality is incompatible with military service" and signed into law legislation allowing businesses in Indiana to kick out gay customers when he was governor of Indiana.

Given, Mike Pence's party controls the Congress, Executive, and Legislative branches of government.

It follows it is likely harmful to homosexual people to elect Mike Pence. And the burden for explaining why that risk is okay falls on the people who vote for Pence and who don't want to be seen as racist, because it sure looks racist.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#807

Post by rajathagasthya »

fastball wrote: post #762
rajathagasthya wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's with mentioning that he went to Stanford law school? This is the second such comment (the other commenter deleted it for some reason). Is someone incapable of having illogical thoughts because they went to "Stanford law school"? He says this in the video: > Whenever you hear someone use the word science it's like a tell that they're bluffing Try to make sense of it.

You said "I wouldn't regard him as intelligent by any means " (emphasis mine). If you don't want people to question your statements, try not to make them so sweeping. Someone that graduated from Stanford twice is definitely intelligent by some means.

How about not putting words in my mouth? I never said I don't want people to question my statements. Do so all you want.

> Someone that graduated from Stanford twice is definitely intelligent by some means.

I just don't pay attention to his Stanford degrees as much as I do to his words. And they certainly don't impress me. Now, you may have a different opinion and you're free to do so. But I don't agree with it.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#808

Post by carapace »

hueving wrote: post #505
sgdesign wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if Trump's problem is only with illegal immigrants, I'm sure he and his supporters would be more than happy to relax immigration policy and regularize the illegal immigrants that are already in the U.S., thus solving the issue?

If someone steals money from you, you don't gift it to them to stop them from being a thief. The illegal immigrants that are here should have to go through the same process as the rest of us immigrants. Otherwise it's just moral hazard disincentivizing immigrants from following the legal process.

I was talking with a Chinese coworker who had the same objection: He had gone through the arduous proper channels to immigrate, and wondered why the folks who came here illegally should be granted special favor. It seems unfair to him.

I pointed out that many of the people here now as "illegal immigrants" are an indispensable part of our society and economy. They are de facto citizens, denied the full benefits of citizenship. We can't throw them out because our economy would tank. The options are to leave them in a twilight class or legitimize them.

I definitely think that people coming here should do so legally. I'm not sure what to do about "the Mexican Problem" (to describe it in 18th century terms.)

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#809

Post by Chris2048 »

mlangdon wrote: post #601
chronic6l wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think someone in debt would be smart enough to prod half the country as sheep into voting for him? Ha. America got trolled and was given the middle finger. We get it, you're upset. But listen to what the Democrat thought leaders are saying: stop dividing the country with your continued rhetoric in your comment. - Software engineer at Google in Mountain View, California

The onus is on him to stop inciting (and personally inflicting) violence against women, Muslims, Latinos, and more. That's what's dividing the country. I'm not going to rely on Democrats to lead any kind of thought until they grow a backbone.

> stop inciting (and personally inflicting) violence against women, Muslims, Latinos

Care to be specific? What do you consider to be "inciting violence"? Actual, explicit endorsement of violence; or just something interpreted as sexist/racism, that might then embolden people to commit these acts?

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#810

Post by beerbajay »

DLA wrote: post #804

This thread is sad. We are ALL Americans. President-elect Trump is OUR president. You know how we can make this next four years a success for all of us, realize the Constitution sets out a process for how we elect our leaders. Go read it. No really, now many of the people burning flags, talking about "end of days" BS, and other nonsense have ever read the Constitution? Let alone swore an oath to defend it? Yeah. As I…

> Stop the hate in the streets.

Go tell that to the people scrawling white power slogans, painting swastikas, putting up signs for "colored" drinking fountains, wearing blackface, calling people "niggers", etc.

> voting freedom is sacred

No, your right to vote is enshrined in the constitution, but you have no right not to be judged a horrible human being for your choice.

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