New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore • Hacker News Board

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#801

Post by marrs » Tue, Nov 01, 2016, 1:44 PM UTC

EugeneOZ wrote: post #618

palunon wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's a key you use frequently, and no longer have the other option, muscle memory isn't that hard to retrain.

You're wrong. Muscle memory is very hard to retrain. To buy laptop with esc button is much more easy. It will be just not MacBook Pro, but it's their problems.

You're wrong? Muscle memory is not that hard to retrain. I had to do it when I first started using a Mac, on which most of the non-qwerty keys (and some of the qwerty ones too) are in a different location to the standard IBM layout.

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#802

Post by marrs » Tue, Nov 01, 2016, 1:53 PM UTC

st3v3r wrote: post #677

city41 wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then how do you change the volume when using vim? Does vim need a special touchbar that basically completely emulates the old keys? That seems excessive.

Did you watch the presentation? Or are you just pearl clutching to try and crap on something you don't like?

It's a perfectly fair point. The function keys provide 2 operations each, depending on whether you use the [fn] modifier, so does the ribbon duplicate this functionality or are we effectively left with half the functionality of the old keys?

Personally, I don't see how you can quickly modify the volume from the ribbon if the application you are using has repurposed that space for some other functionality it thinks you are more likely to want

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#803

Post by marrs » Tue, Nov 01, 2016, 1:57 PM UTC

paavokoya wrote: post #576

bisby wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a vim user, esc is pretty important. I would say the author clearly knows very little computer specs: "The MacBook Pro had options with 2.4 gigahertz dual-core processors back in 2010. Anything new in 2016? Not really, well… nope." Because a 2010 2.4ghz dual core is identical to a 2016 2.4 ghz dual core.... I thought we got over comparing processors purely by their clock speed a long time ago. (I will agree that t…

But apple fanboys will keep buying it It's extremely patronizing and dismissive to insinuate that only "apple fanboys" buy macbook pros. There are plenty of reasons to buy an apple laptop without being a "fanboy". Searching for the best laptop leads many to apple simply because of logistics/price/ease-of-use. That said, most of the other stuff you say is true.

To be honest, there aren't that many and they're becoming fewer and further apart.

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#804

Post by marrs » Tue, Nov 01, 2016, 2:05 PM UTC

douche wrote: post #703

st3v3r wrote: post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hardly ever used them when I used VS, so I don't see why I would be cursing their lack now.

Were you clicking around the menus all the time or using a heavily modded keymap? Building, running, almost all of the debugger commands, viewing property pages, switching between code and designers, all make heavy use of the function keys out of the box. Those are pretty common tasks.

VS would probably repurpose the ribbon to provide debugging keys at that point.

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#805

Post by thecodewarrior » Thu, Nov 03, 2016, 11:33 AM UTC

ericjang wrote: post #37

I dislike this post intensely. The opinion comes across as uncharitable, as the author probably has not used this Macbook Pro yet. How can you (alexeysemeney) be so sure? I consider myself a developer, and I almost never use the Fn and ESC keys on my Mac. Everybody uses the computer differently, but I'm pretty sure this is not a deal-breaker for most. One could also argue that the touch bar might lead to innovative d…

'almost never use the Fn or ESC keys'

Then I'll wager your knowledge of the capabilities of the apps you use is limited and if you are developing UIs I'll bet that while you consider them slick and sophisticated, they are in reality limited and inefficient.

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#806

Post by bisby » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 6:31 PM UTC

paavokoya wrote: post #576

bisby wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a vim user, esc is pretty important. I would say the author clearly knows very little computer specs: "The MacBook Pro had options with 2.4 gigahertz dual-core processors back in 2010. Anything new in 2016? Not really, well… nope." Because a 2010 2.4ghz dual core is identical to a 2016 2.4 ghz dual core.... I thought we got over comparing processors purely by their clock speed a long time ago. (I will agree that t…

But apple fanboys will keep buying it It's extremely patronizing and dismissive to insinuate that only "apple fanboys" buy macbook pros. There are plenty of reasons to buy an apple laptop without being a "fanboy". Searching for the best laptop leads many to apple simply because of logistics/price/ease-of-use. That said, most of the other stuff you say is true.

My point was more that there are people who buy Apple regardless of quality or features. If you buy Apple because it's the best for you, go for it. I agree that they are quality built laptops.

You don't find people who are dedicated to buy only Dell laptops even if something negative happens. There are no Dell fanboys (that I've ever encountered). If Dell does something stupid, people will buy ASUS, HP, Samsung, Toshiba, Lenovo, etc and get basically the same experience.

The point was less that ONLY fanboys buy macbook pros, but moreso that Apple has a large enough loyal fanbase that they can basically do whatever, and people will defend the decision.

You will hear people say that 16gb of RAM is a non-issue and if you need more than that you are doing it wrong. That is a fanboy response. A logical response is "I don't need 16gb of RAM, but I'm not everyone, so I'm not going to start a debate over this"

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#807

Post by cyberhck » Sat, Nov 12, 2016, 12:59 PM UTC

legulere wrote: post #796

mladen5 wrote: post #781

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Main point for touch strip is changing icons/state. But that's absurd because not even my mother blind types. This is clearly another fancy thing that removes functionality.

Nobody types function keys blindly however

I have a blank keyboard, I never look at it, when I use for debugging I'm extremely fast as I don't have to look back and forth on keyboard and screen or use mouse (who uses mouse that much anyway?), I'd miss F keys if I bought the new macbook pro.

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#808

Post by cyberhck » Sat, Nov 12, 2016, 1:06 PM UTC

marrs wrote: post #799

GrinningFool wrote: post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I use Ctrl-C or Ctrl-[ to exit insert mode and it works just fine. In fact I understand that most experienced VIm users do this. That's pretty uncommon to imply it's generalizable. Most vim users, I feel comfortable in saying, actually use 'Esc', or a key mapped to the same. Speaking for myself, I can't see why I'd want to use two keys when one would do.

Well having to stretch your little finger all the way to the corner of the keyboard gets pretty annoying when you have to do it all the time, as you do with Vim. Much easier to remap another key close to the home row, and since caps-lock is so redundant, it is the obvious candidate. So whether you map it directly to Esc or to a modifier, the parent's point stands: Vim users don't need the Esc key and are probably bet…

classic apple fanboy huh? I've a shortcut for my F1 key which toggles terminal on full screen. What there? You don't expect me to map one key for that as well, do you? I'd still prefer a physical button.