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User feedback on Pocket submitted to Mozilla

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Re: User feedback on Pocket submitted to Mozilla

#81

Post by Mithaldu »

soapdog wrote: post #75
WorldWideWayne wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather Mozilla didn't just add third-party components via a silent update, without even giving me a choice. I didn't complain, I didn't criticize...I simply uninstalled Firefox. Lots of people use lots of extensions on a daily basis, but they don't give preferential treatment to those extensions. I am trusting Mozilla less and less and I'm not going to complain very loudly about it - but I am just going to leave.

I completely agree with using what feels comfortable with ones values and ideals. Can you tell me what browser you moved to? One thing that we can talk about is that Mozilla is the single browser vendor working in the open. The source code, the development process, the roadmap and teams are all open. You can be a part of the development process and help make the Firefox you want. The cool thing about the Web is that…

> You can be a part of the development process and help make the Firefox you want.

In theory. In practice you get white-knighted to death by people who don't even read to the half-way point of your email.

You're falling prey to the open source fairy tale of "everything is open so you can make it what you want!", which leaves out the part: "but many things you might want can only become reality if you're willing to sacrifice years of your life, and they'll only usefully be available to yourself, thanks to open source ALSO having politics".

Re: User feedback on Pocket submitted to Mozilla

#82

Post by Mithaldu »

soapdog wrote: post #76
dd9990 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you don't use it, then it is not doing you any harm. If somehow the presence of a button annoys you, then you can click the "customize" menu item and remove that button. That's extremely condescending. Program defaults, as you are aware, are very powerful. Pocket was shoved in millions of people's faces. Most won't bother or don't have the technical skills to remove it or understand the privacy implications of us…

You know what? You're right. Defaults are extremely powerful and I haven't thought about that angle. I too would have loved a public, federated and open API for a "read it later" feature but right now we don't have one. The only way to solve this was to build it or bundle some ready made solution. You can ask the Firefox Development team at their mailing list why they chose to bundle Pocket instead of developing a ne…

> If we want a "read it later" feature and we can't build our own

Go to about:addons in firefox.

Enter "read later" in the top right box.

Browse, investigate and choose one to install on your own computer.

> The only way to solve this was to build it or bundle some ready made solution.

Building or bundling it was the only way to achieve what exactly? You're not being clear about what the goal here even is.

Re: User feedback on Pocket submitted to Mozilla

#83

Post by ktsmith »

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #31
blfr wrote: post #20

I don't understand the complaint here. Do people expect Mozilla to build everything themselves? Reader View is a great feature that was clearly missing. Adding a third party sync to it is really no different from picking a default search engine to serve location bar entries. Pocket is fine, best of the trio (Instapaper, Readability) IMHO. I actually switched to Pocket from Readability, which was getting buggier, a fe…

I love the pocket integration. The built-in functionality definitely works much better than the plugin, which was weirdly slow sometimes and had some glitches. Pocket has changed how I use the web. With a single click I send any substantive article to get automatically synced to my Kobo ereader, which also has built-in pocket integration.

I use firefox and pocket but I still don't like that it's baked into the browser. If I change my mind and stop using pocket I can't actually get rid of it. I can disable it but without digging through the source code (which I can do but most users really can't) I have no idea what that actually means. To me that's a problem and it reduces the level of trust I have with the Mozilla organization.

Re: User feedback on Pocket submitted to Mozilla

#84

Post by volaski »

soapdog wrote: post #73
lgp171188 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pocket was added internally and not as an extension because it was easier. Not sure how it was easier, since there is already a Firefox extension for Pocket which could have been shipped as an extension installed by default (but removable by users who do not want it) > Instead of offering just a web view, Mozilla is trying to bundle features that the users find useful. None of the said features does you any harm if…

> Pocket was added internally and not as an extension because it was easier. > Not sure how it was easier, since there is already a Firefox extension for Pocket which could have been shipped as an extension installed by default (but removable by users who do not want it) Developers said that this way was easier to maintain. I am not sure why either. > A lot of privacy-aware users will expect Mozilla to provide a way…

It's bad (for firefox) because it's already too slow. I used to be a loyal firefox user but they have completely lost it. While I can keep tons of tabs open on chrome, on firefox when I try anything similar it just hangs a lot of times, and yes I am talking about the latest version. So I don't use firefox as my main browser anymore. I think people wouldn't complain as much if they already do well what they're supposed to do, but from my experience they have been just working on all these unfocused initiatives while the browser itself has grown to become bloated and cluttered. Lastly, the "share" button is just too clumsy. If it's a native feature it should function like a native feature and make people's lives easier. I tried connecting my gmail and all it did was load gmail website. This is no better than installing a 3rd party bookmarklet from gmail.

Re: User feedback on Pocket submitted to Mozilla

#85

Post by soapdog »

dingaling wrote: post #77
soapdog wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Core values never changed. You can ask the Firefox development team at their mailing list why they decided to go with Pocket instead of building their own solution based on Firefox Sync (which is now called Firefox Accounts). If the ToS and practices from Read It Later or any other partner are beyond what you consider valid or good, you can always reach Mozilla through the user voices channel and the development mail…

The ToS concerns have been raised repeatedly on moz-governance. We have been told not to worry about it, everything is probably fine. Probably. One guy is going to check, sometime. Edit: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.governance/2...

Moz Legal posted about the ToS here https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mozilla.governance/2PYq2w8te...

Re: User feedback on Pocket submitted to Mozilla

#86

Post by soapdog »

muraiki wrote: post #79
soapdog wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Core values never changed. You can ask the Firefox development team at their mailing list why they decided to go with Pocket instead of building their own solution based on Firefox Sync (which is now called Firefox Accounts). If the ToS and practices from Read It Later or any other partner are beyond what you consider valid or good, you can always reach Mozilla through the user voices channel and the development mail…

Downvoted because ToS concerns have indeed been queried about repeatedly on various public forums.

And they have been answered here https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mozilla.governance/2PYq2w8te...

Re: User feedback on Pocket submitted to Mozilla

#87

Post by soapdog »

muraiki wrote: post #56
soapdog wrote: post #28

Let me clarify some things: * There is no money involved in the Pocket thing. * Pocket was added internally and not as an extension because it was easier. * You don't become a Pocket user simply by using Firefox, you need to actually use the feature. * Mozilla helped Pocket create a new privacy policy * If you don't use it, then it is not doing you any harm. If somehow the presence of a button annoys you, then you ca…

Has there been any clarification on how the Pocket TOS applies to users of Firefox who aren't actively using Pocket? Because the wording seems to indicate that mere installation of "Pocket Technologies" constitutes acceptance of their TOS. "Please read the following terms of service ("Agreement") before you install the Pocket™ application or use any of the products or services we provide through our application, soft…

Mozilla Legal posted about the ToS here https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mozilla.governance/2PYq2w8te...

Re: User feedback on Pocket submitted to Mozilla

#88

Post by brerlapn »

kaolinite wrote: post #61
soapdog wrote: post #28

Let me clarify some things: * There is no money involved in the Pocket thing. * Pocket was added internally and not as an extension because it was easier. * You don't become a Pocket user simply by using Firefox, you need to actually use the feature. * Mozilla helped Pocket create a new privacy policy * If you don't use it, then it is not doing you any harm. If somehow the presence of a button annoys you, then you ca…

> Pocket was added internally and not as an extension because it was easier. There's the problem you need to fix. It should be just as easy (easier, frankly) to build this as an add-on. I recently built a small extension[1] that targets Firefox, Chrome and Safari (with the same code-base) and found Firefox to be - by far - the most annoying to deal with. It's sad that the browser that championed add-ons is such a pai…

As an aside to this discussion, your extension is quite excellent and saves me the RAM of keeping profile windows open during some of the extended HN debates where profile info/bio was helpful to understand where participants were coming from, or even just to check things like karma/profile age before I follow a link. Glad you mentioned it here, as I'm not sure it would have occurred to me to go looking for a solution to that particular problem.

Re: User feedback on Pocket submitted to Mozilla

#89

Post by Aldo_MX »

Mithaldu wrote: post #82
soapdog wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what? You're right. Defaults are extremely powerful and I haven't thought about that angle. I too would have loved a public, federated and open API for a "read it later" feature but right now we don't have one. The only way to solve this was to build it or bundle some ready made solution. You can ask the Firefox Development team at their mailing list why they chose to bundle Pocket instead of developing a ne…

> If we want a "read it later" feature and we can't build our own Go to about:addons in firefox. Enter "read later" in the top right box. Browse, investigate and choose one to install on your own computer. > The only way to solve this was to build it or bundle some ready made solution. Building or bundling it was the only way to achieve what exactly? You're not being clear about what the goal here even is.

> Building or bundling it was the only way to achieve what exactly?

The ability to save a page to read it later similar to Safari's and Edge's Reading Lists?

Re: User feedback on Pocket submitted to Mozilla

#90

Post by Aldo_MX »

josu wrote: post #60
soapdog wrote: post #28

Let me clarify some things: * There is no money involved in the Pocket thing. * Pocket was added internally and not as an extension because it was easier. * You don't become a Pocket user simply by using Firefox, you need to actually use the feature. * Mozilla helped Pocket create a new privacy policy * If you don't use it, then it is not doing you any harm. If somehow the presence of a button annoys you, then you ca…

>Firefox Hello is a collaboration, developed by Mozilla with help from Telefonica. Its videoconferencing without accounts. You don't need to create any account and it doesn't track you, how that is not good is beyond me. Telefónica is seen as an evil company in Spain; it's the Spanish AT&T. It just doesn't look like a good match with Mozilla, really different cultures. I don't think that that's the problem, but it ce…

Oh, come on! A non-evil (from a user perspective) telecom company doesn't even exist...
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