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A Quick Puzzle to Test Your Problem Solving

nytimes.com

81–90 of 311 posts

Re: A Quick Puzzle to Test Your Problem Solving

#81
Funnily enough, I notice confirmation bias quite a bit in a D&D game I am currently DM of. I'm playing with a group of friends who are big into video games, and as a result they consistently seek resolutions to conflicts in D&D by way of what they know from shooters: kill everything in sight. Yes, it's at times a valid answer, but it's not the only one and it's certainly not the most interesting one. The best way that I've seen the confirmation bias dissipate from their thinking is to put them into situations where their bias just doesn't help at all.

Re: A Quick Puzzle to Test Your Problem Solving

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People familiar with unit testing and test driven development will feel at home with this kind of puzzle. That doesn't mean that they will be less biased in social/political decisions, it just means that this test will fail to prove a point.

That's exactly what I was thinking. I (sometimes) follow TDD, and I applied it to this problem. I made sure to include negatives, 0, positives, and include primes here or there to help avoid issues with multiplication/exponentiation. After a few of these, I felt pretty confident that the rule was simple.

My process was:

    [3 5 7]
    [7 5 3]
    [8 4 2]
    [5 7 3]
    [1 2 3]
    [1 1 1]
    [0 1 2]
At that point I could've done some more to be really certain, but felt confident enough and guessed (correctly).

Re: A Quick Puzzle to Test Your Problem Solving

#83

There is no penalty to being told "no". That also applies to "I think I know the answer". There is no penalty for being told "no" there as well, so once you have a reasonable guess why not check it? Disagree with their analysis.

There is an implied penalty because it says about the answer box "Make sure you’re right; you won’t get a second chance" in contrast to "You can test as many sequences as you want" about the sequences.

This is absolutely correct. Perhaps Hacker News culture is such that they realize such a warning can be overcome through a refresh, or possibly an incognito browser window if a cookie is preventing a second guess. Still though, within the rules of the game, there is no drawback of testing negative sequences, but there's a clearly defined drawback of entering an incorrect answer.

Re: A Quick Puzzle to Test Your Problem Solving

#84

Seems busted now - clicking the "I think I know" button does nothing. I thought the answer was: Let the first number be x. If x is 0, then the second number is 1. Otherwise, the second number is two times the absolute value of x. The third number is 2 times the value of the second number.

The answer they were looking for was: Let the numbers be x, y, and z; x Their hypothesis was that most people would guess as you did (they mentioned 78% of people did so).

Re: A Quick Puzzle to Test Your Problem Solving

#88
post #3

I'm curious to see more about the distribution of questions and answers people had, and how the HN population may differ from the NYT's. There will certainly be self selection bias here, but if you're willing to share how you did with others, please enter it here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/17e5BIL0lH8OHsGj89Zdtdl8GeCV... The result summary is visible here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/17e5BIL0lH8OHsGj89Zdtdl…

This crowd needs one more question:

How many "I know the answer, but can I find a flaw in their code" questions did you ask?

Re: A Quick Puzzle to Test Your Problem Solving

#89

The official answer to this puzzle makes a huge assumption: that there is one correct answer. There is not one correct answer. (x, 2x, 4x) gives you a "yes" every time, therefore it is a correct answer, at least as automatically checkable, and there's an infinite number of such tuples. To find a "no" you're reduced to random guessing. That's not a puzzle, that's crap. The confirmation bias material might be true, but…

I've read this comment three times and I still can't figure out what you're trying to say. It sounds like you're arguing that all "puzzles" should exist on finite domains so that a brute force solution exists.

"(x, 2x, 4x) gives you a "yes" every time, therefore it is a correct answer, at least as automatically checkable."

Well, no: you can type 1, 2, 3 into the system and it will tell you "yes", but your rule says that it should tell you "no".

It is crucial to the definition of "correct answer" here that your rule should not just say "yes" only for tuples which the widget also says yes to, but also your rule should say "no" only for tuples which the widget also says no to. That is what the puzzle means when it's asking, "can you guess the rule that we've created?"

This makes it very, very different from what I think you're thinking about, which is situations where someone tells you, "what is the next number in this sequence? 4, 7, 13, 25, ...?" where technically there are an infinite number of rules which will generate those 4 numbers first and an arbitrary number afterwards. Technically one of them is "simplest" in the sense that it can be expressed in 7 symbols, but in general it's a complicated problem and there is no best solution.

"To find a 'no' you're reduced to random guessing. That's not a puzzle, that's crap."

In many ways it still is a puzzle but the space that it lives in is richer. If you think about typical "puzzles" they're things like: "here's a grid with some spaces filled in with numbers,

    2 . . 2 . 2 .
    . . . . . . .
    1 . 3 . . 2 .
    . . . . . . .
    3 . . . 2 . 3
    . . 2 . . . .
    . . . . . . .
Each number is a block in a block wall. We want you to turn this into a block maze so that each 'block wall' (set of blocks connected by adjacency) contains exactly one numbered-block whose number says how many total blocks are in the wall. Furthermore the path (non-block space) of the block maze should be connected and should not contain any 'rooms' -- that is, any 2x2 or larger segments of open space."

This 7x7 grid has 10 spaces which are known to be blocks and exactly 12 more blocks scattered in the remaining 39 spaces, so just by those factors alone we're searching only (39 choose 12) ~= 3.91 billion possibilities; we can also use a quick heuristic to identify 6 places which must be "space" to break apart adjacent numbered walls, removing 91% of that search space.

The puzzles, "I have a set of integers where inclusion in the set is governed by a short rule, you can ask me any integer and I will tell you whether it is in my set", by contrast, have an infinite search space. This means that any solution is going to be more interesting, as will the means for checking that solution's validity. You could require, for instance, a Haskell expression of 140 characters or fewer which turns a nonnegative Int named `n` into a Bool, to be judged as "valid" or "invalid" if it properly filters `[1..10000000] :: [Int]`. You could even give the first 100 numbers in the set, e.g.:

    ghci> take 100 $ filter trueFn [0..]
    [2,5,8,9,13,14,18,19,20,25,26,27,32,33,34,35,41,42,43,44,50,51,52,53,54,61,62,63,64,65,
    72,73,74,75,76,77,85,86,87,88,89,90,98,99,100,101,102,103,104,113,114,115,116,117,118,
    119,128,129,130,131,132,133,134,135,145,146,147,148,149,150,151,152,162,163,164,165,
    166,167,168,169,170,181,182,183,184,185,186,187,188,189,200,201,202,203,204,205,206,
    207,208,209]
In this case that's pretty much enough to see the general pattern; the verification covers 10 million bits while the 140-character limit probably limits your search space to 1000 bits or so, so it's going to be hard to get an "incorrect" answer which agrees on that subspace of the whole.

Re: A Quick Puzzle to Test Your Problem Solving

#90
Typical NYT psycho-babble:

I got the right answer but with several Yes answers and also several No answers and without their confirmation bias and other nonsense.

And, I do know about "problem solving", thank you, with some of my solutions responsible for my peer-reviewed published papers and Ph.D. in some STEM work at a world class research university. Sorry, NYT: I don't regard your organization as able to "test" "problem solving".

Also "the rule" likely makes no sense since it is not clear that there can't be multiple rules that describe their black box. Indeed, it has long been known that there are some fundamental challenges saying what is in a black box just from looking at pairs of inputs and outputs -- of course, can't expect the NYT psycho-babble click bait writers/editors to know that.

Once again the NYT looks like an organization down for a count of 8 or 9 out of 10.

NYT: Give up the social pseudo-science psycho-babble and other nonsense nearly as bad as leech bleeding, move out of the 18th century and at least into the 20th century, e.g., with its standards of information safety and efficacy illustrated by mathematics, mathematical physics, chemistry, biology (e.g., DNA), engineering, medical science.

Come on, NYT: Drop the 18th century leech bleeding information safety and efficacy.

Have you no shame to look so foolish in front of millions of people?

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