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Two Uber managers detained in France over 'illicit' low-cost service

theguardian.com

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Re: Two Uber managers detained in France over 'illicit' low-cost service

#81

Post by dylanjermiah »

viola11 wrote: post #80
dylanjermiah wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Transportation being cheaper and more efficient means people save time and save money. Uber has also allowed hundreds of thousands of people with an income source. _That_ is a convincing argument to me. "Actually compete with existing taxis" They are competing, Uber is doing 3-5x more rides in SF than the taxis as a whole were doing before Uber. That's without including Lyft. So they're expanding the market, meaning…

Indeed they are competing with existing taxi services, but not as a taxi company, but rather as a "ride share", despite providing a taxis service, and branding themselves as such. Given that they had the choice between acting and probably-illegally, I can find no reason to act questionably except profit expectations. This in turn means that Uber can reasonable be expected to have come to the conclusion that their tec…

My last post already addressed this but...The taxi system is not a free market, the supply was artificially restrained and prices monopolised. Hence for the Uber system to work as it does now it would be impossible to be a 'taxi company' because the laws, in effect, have outlawed a cheap and efficient means of transportation.

The SF market is proof that they are not only obliterating the former taxi market, their service is so superior that it's expanding the market 5 times.

Re: Two Uber managers detained in France over 'illicit' low-cost service

#82

Post by dylanjermiah »

mrgoldenbrown wrote: post #79
dylanjermiah wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A large majority of Uber drivers are former taxi drivers, you don't have to lease a vehicle for 45k per year, choose hours of work, and you have more control over passengers bad behaviour (two way rating system).

And what happens when Uber continues to lower the rates Uber drivers earn at? Eventually taxis will look like a better job again.

That's a meaningless hypothetical. Why would Uber do that? They have every incentive to make sure that drivers are getting paid as much as possible and that riders have the cheapest prices possible, they literally have hundreds of people working on finding the equilibrium.

Re: Two Uber managers detained in France over 'illicit' low-cost service

#83

Post by crandycodes »

therobot24 wrote: post #39
crandycodes wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes it's exactly the best way to fix it. Have something so good and popular the law has to change. Prohibition didn't end because people missed the taste of alcohol; it was because people kept on drinking (and the illicit nature brought with it the trappings of criminality - corruption, violence, and murder). Gay marriage bans were hard to "ignore" because it requires cooperation with the government, but anti-s…

I completely agree with your sentiment. Though the only comparison I think fits the most with Uber is prohibition (since alcohol can be considered as a luxury, while marriage is a legal right). Don't forget though, with prohibition there was a complex underground bootlegging market funding organized crime. Also there's the whole Great Depression thing which put the whole country in need of additional revenue streams.…

Oh yeah. None of this is simple black and white. My main assertion is that systems are generally trying to maintain homeostasis. In order to change the system, it's sometimes necessary is disrupt/ignore the system; especially when other means of influencing the system are denied or ineffective.

Re: Two Uber managers detained in France over 'illicit' low-cost service

#84

Post by rorykoehler »

jkoudys wrote: post #75
Shivetya wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When government conspires with business to create a shortage it needs to be shaken up. The cost to entry for taxi services should not be the absurd numbers quoted in many cities, a number which only exists to benefit the existing companies and the politicians they support. What likely annoys these people the most is that their little game is being called out. Regulation has its place, that is not stifling competition…

There are good arguments in favour of restricted supply, mainly because the roads themselves are publicly owned, and the public pays the cost of every extra vehicle on them. What's especially problematic about the way regulations are used now, is they're forcing the exact opposite outcome: uber (and others) are much better at efficiently routing cars to passengers. Taxis driving in loops around the city, waiting for…

I'm not sure about the routing efficiency assertion. Sure a few years ago that would have been true but most taxis are/can be hailed by app at this stage.

Re: Two Uber managers detained in France over 'illicit' low-cost service

#85

Post by dalore »

ska wrote: post #17
dylanjermiah wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The licenses are what made the taxi system so inefficient.

It's not as cut and dried as getting rid of licenses. A couple of examples: - some things that come with licenses are plausibly desirable (commercial insurance, say) and have no other mechanism. Yes this argues for a different solution. - adding vehicles to road networks at or near capacity (e.g. dense metro areas) can lead to systemic inefficiencies that are plausibly much worse that the positives from a putative in…

It's not about adding vehicles. More ubers actually mean less vehicles since people who would otherwise drive and park all day would take an uber.

You would argue that more and more ubers would come. But uber drivers would see they wouldn't be making enough money so they wouldn't do that.

Re: Two Uber managers detained in France over 'illicit' low-cost service

#86

Post by ska »

dalore wrote: post #85
ska wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not as cut and dried as getting rid of licenses. A couple of examples: - some things that come with licenses are plausibly desirable (commercial insurance, say) and have no other mechanism. Yes this argues for a different solution. - adding vehicles to road networks at or near capacity (e.g. dense metro areas) can lead to systemic inefficiencies that are plausibly much worse that the positives from a putative in…

It's not about adding vehicles. More ubers actually mean less vehicles since people who would otherwise drive and park all day would take an uber. You would argue that more and more ubers would come. But uber drivers would see they wouldn't be making enough money so they wouldn't do that.

"More ubers actually mean less vehicles since people who would otherwise drive and park all day would take an uber"

That's a pretty strong claim - where I've see uber operate the vast majority of fares seem to be people who were taking taxis anyway, they just prefer uber. Do you have evidence that uber is actually eating into private car usage in any significant way in a dense metro area?

Re: Two Uber managers detained in France over 'illicit' low-cost service

#87

Post by mcuk2k »

dylanjermiah wrote: post #82
mrgoldenbrown wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what happens when Uber continues to lower the rates Uber drivers earn at? Eventually taxis will look like a better job again.

That's a meaningless hypothetical. Why would Uber do that? They have every incentive to make sure that drivers are getting paid as much as possible and that riders have the cheapest prices possible, they literally have hundreds of people working on finding the equilibrium.

Once you become the de facto platform and you move from a start-up to a multinational public company, there's no longer a need to look after the contractors. There's added pressure to milk those contractors for all they've got. The contractors are easily replaceable and will live under constant threat of upcoming automation.

Re: Two Uber managers detained in France over 'illicit' low-cost service

#88

Post by dylanjermiah »

mcuk2k wrote: post #87
dylanjermiah wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a meaningless hypothetical. Why would Uber do that? They have every incentive to make sure that drivers are getting paid as much as possible and that riders have the cheapest prices possible, they literally have hundreds of people working on finding the equilibrium.

Once you become the de facto platform and you move from a start-up to a multinational public company, there's no longer a need to look after the contractors. There's added pressure to milk those contractors for all they've got. The contractors are easily replaceable and will live under constant threat of upcoming automation.

No. Uber will always have the incentive to keep drivers happy, as they are competing with every other job. If another position values their time more they will move there.

On the topic of self driving cars, full saturation is at least a couple of decades away.

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