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Tmux has left SourceForge

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Re: Tmux has left SourceForge

#81

Post by DanBC »

logicallee wrote: post #64
barbs wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't believe you at first, but I just went to install it and...wow... https://imgur.com/a/o6cSW

I thought you were going to show a virus result - the screen you showed is very unambiguously an opt-in screen, it even has the term "Accept" (as opposed to some other word like next or install) making you look at it - if the text said something else you would be very likely to just click it. The button at the left 'skip' is also clear about your other option (if it said 'cancel' it would sound like you're aborting i…

You say it's a great screen, unambiguous, very clear. But you then say:

> EDIT: I didn't even notice, there is even grey small text that spells this out in completely unambiguous words! (Thank you for considering this offer from our advertiser...your choice does not affect installation of FileZilla.)

Doesn't the fact that you didn't notice it make you at least pause?

I am ad tolerant. I do not run an ad blocker. If an ad is relevant to my interests I will click it. (I click maybe one ad every six months. I've never bought anything as the result of an ad.) And I loathe this kind of bundling.

We know that users are unable to read dialog boxes. Ask anyone who's worked in support about their experiences of getting people to read back an error message that's displayed on their screen. Every support channel on the Internet will ask people to post screenshots or to copy and paste the output.

IMO there should be an industry standard for how the screens should be worded, what they should look like, what buttons they can or can't include. Yes, we'd see many fewer people installing the malware but that's the point: no-one wants it. I tolerte ads but I see no reason to switch from Google supplied ads to some random adnetwork.

Re: Tmux has left SourceForge

#82

Post by DanBC »

tenfingers wrote: post #45
caf wrote: post #10

I notice they're using Google Groups for mailing lists - how have people found Google Groups as a technical mailing list provider?

Horrid. Besides poor threading (I'm speaking about the UI itself), it's unbelievable how HEAVY google groups feels when loading and using their web interface. It's so sad to think that google groups was the best interface ever to nntp in the past when it took over dejanews. But it doesn't stop there. I had endless problems with regular subscribers ending up as junk. Likewise, as a subscriber, I had several issues in…

> It's so sad to think that google groups was the best interface ever to nntp in the past when it took over dejanews.

The best WWW interface!

slrn or pan or almost any other newsreader were great.

Re: Tmux has left SourceForge

#83

Post by david-given »

scrollaway wrote: post #44
david-given wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked at Discourse, and for the scale of my projects the pricing is unmanageable. Hosted by them it's $1000+ a year; hosted by me it's still $100+ a year ($200+ for the first year). Installing it and running it myself requires spinning up a moderately high-end docker instance, which I'm unwilling to do (not only does it cost money, but I've only just managed to stop running my own servers, and it's great).

Why don't you pick the one-time install ($100) on a server you already own? If your ML is low-traffic there's no reason it should cost you much more than a couple dollars a month.

They won't install it on my own server. The $100 one-time install fee installs it on a virtual server with Digital Ocean, which then costs $10 a month hosting.

Re: Tmux has left SourceForge

#84

Post by pbhjpbhj »

logicallee wrote: post #64
barbs wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't believe you at first, but I just went to install it and...wow... https://imgur.com/a/o6cSW

I thought you were going to show a virus result - the screen you showed is very unambiguously an opt-in screen, it even has the term "Accept" (as opposed to some other word like next or install) making you look at it - if the text said something else you would be very likely to just click it. The button at the left 'skip' is also clear about your other option (if it said 'cancel' it would sound like you're aborting i…

> How can you be any less ambiguous?? //

What would be less ambiguous would be when you download an installer for an app then the installer installs that app and doesn't attempt to trick you in to "accept"ing what you think is the initial app install but is in fact an entirely different app.

If you really wanted to let them add apps people don't want then at the point of download an unchecked box could have an offer for unrelated software and that offer would state something like "software we're getting paid to have installed on your computer". That too would be unambiguous.

It's like someone offers you a bag of sweets and as you take them they say "you're fine with cryptosporidium" under their breath; you think they muttered some marketing slogan and instead you get ill from the sweets. Perfectly acceptable, you even had chance to find out what was in the sweets /s.

Aside: What's your startup?

Re: Tmux has left SourceForge

#85

Post by scrollaway »

Kiro wrote: post #67
scrollaway wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discourse is what we're currently looking at. They have very nice pricing options for both one-time-installs and continued hosting/support.

I thought Discourse was a forum software.

It is, but it has a mailing list mode.

Re: Tmux has left SourceForge

#86

Post by pbhjpbhj »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #34
doiwin wrote: post #30

SourceForge was founded 1999. Now, 16 years later they start to abuse their power. GitHub was launched 2008. Does this mean we can expect GitHub to start abusing our data by 2024?

Quite possibly. As the market matures and gets more competitive, people are being forced to sacrifice every value, one by one, to boost short-term profits. It seems to be a common dynamic in just about every industry.

Are the people making those decisions on the poverty line or are they making them to make themselves even richer?

[Yes it's literally a false dichotomy, I think my meaning is clear though.]

Re: Tmux has left SourceForge

#87

Post by eknkc »

madaxe_again wrote: post #53
josephg wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Github has a stable business model which depends on their reputation as a host. As I understand it, that isn't something that could ever be said of SourceForge. I'm not saying github will be around forever, but I highly doubt they'll make the same mistake sourceforge is making now.

SF was highly reputable back in the day - why else do you think so many projects which have roots back in the 90's are hosted there? Never say never. 15 years ago nobody would've dreamt SF would have gone this way.

I don't think there were decent alternatives back then. Also, their business model has been based on web advertisement. It's a valid point that GitHub has a solid model and might not need to do shady stuff in the long run.

Re: Tmux has left SourceForge

#88

Post by TeMPOraL »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #86
TeMPOraL wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite possibly. As the market matures and gets more competitive, people are being forced to sacrifice every value, one by one, to boost short-term profits. It seems to be a common dynamic in just about every industry.

Are the people making those decisions on the poverty line or are they making them to make themselves even richer? [Yes it's literally a false dichotomy, I think my meaning is clear though.]

Both, actually. It doesn't even have to be a conscious choice; if you had every CEO make business decisions at random, those companies that made themselves more competitive would still thrive, while the others would die.

Those who keep sacrificing values tend to outcompete the ones who don't, and so the values end up being sacrificed regardless of however humans rationalize it to themselves while making decisions.

Re: Tmux has left SourceForge

#89

Post by ta0967 »

k_bx wrote: post #72
lcswi wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially because you cannot even read them without JavaScript or signing up.

Why? I just subscribed to all messages and use it as any other mailing list – in my email.

google tries very hard to leave the impression that you must have a gmail/google/google+ (not sure, haven't had the misfortune of doing this for some time) account to subscribe.

Re: Tmux has left SourceForge

#90

Post by ta0967 »

caf wrote: post #10

I notice they're using Google Groups for mailing lists - how have people found Google Groups as a technical mailing list provider?

they lose emails. subscriber sends an email to the list, it's accepted, and then it only appears in the web interface, nobody receives an email. or, the mailing list does distribute the email but it never appears in the web interface.
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