Japanese Change Trays • Hacker News Board

Re: Japanese Change Trays

#81

Post by HCIdivision17 » Wed, Jun 03, 2015, 9:35 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #54

ohitsdom wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why subject people to that? If Christians truly believe nonbelievers are going to hell, it's the only loving response. The magician (and atheist) Penn has a great story about this [0]. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owZc3Xq8obk

It can only be viewed as a loving response if you think its effective, rather than alienating. If you believe unbelievers are going to hell, and believe (or observe) that that approach to evangelization is alienating, then its more than just rude...

My two cents on this off-topic discussion...

I've never been a part of the goin't'hell group, but in my fairly extensive experience as a young adult in an evangelical religious group, I certainly got the impression that the high touch personal approach was taken as more effective. Most people don't really like doing the door-to-door salesperson routine[0]. But they do it because it seems to work - assuming anyone actually answers the door (which is the real rarity). Or at least is effective enough; conversion rates are, shall we say, low. It doesn't need to be high, though, since the risk and reward is so high (failure means more lost, success is a life).

[0] For introverts it can be extremely stressful - practice is the only thing that seems to make the terror go away for them. If the person at the door preachin' the word looks awkward and is stammering, be kind - they're more afraid of you than you are of them :)

EDIT: slight grammar/clarification. EDIT EDIT: This is off-topic enough I'm going to just truncate part of my comment to gist: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/dead25324e4f74ccc183

Re: Japanese Change Trays

#82

Post by paulsutter » Wed, Jun 03, 2015, 9:50 PM UTC

In Japan, anytime you hand someone cash in personal life it's rude not to put it in an envelope. Examples includes gifts or paying your Japanese teacher.

The tray avoids passing cash hand to hand. 20 years ago, clerks (or taxi drivers) would be visibly surprised and slightly shocked if you tried to hand them cash. But that's relaxed a lot now. Tourists hand cash to clerks and the reaction is slight if at all. Taxi drivers often exchange cash hand to hand. It's still more polite to use the tray but less strict.

Re: Japanese Change Trays

#83

Post by ojbyrne » Wed, Jun 03, 2015, 9:54 PM UTC

I remember these being common in Canada at least as late as the mid-1980s. Usually branded with a credit card logo.

Re: Japanese Change Trays

#84

Post by littlepooghish » Wed, Jun 03, 2015, 9:58 PM UTC

HCIdivision17 wrote: post #81

dragonwriter wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can only be viewed as a loving response if you think its effective, rather than alienating. If you believe unbelievers are going to hell, and believe (or observe) that that approach to evangelization is alienating, then its more than just rude...

My two cents on this off-topic discussion... I've never been a part of the goin't'hell group, but in my fairly extensive experience as a young adult in an evangelical religious group, I certainly got the impression that the high touch personal approach was taken as more effective. Most people don't really like doing the door-to-door salesperson routine[0]. But they do it because it seems to work - assuming anyone act…

> If the person at the door preachin' the word looks awkward and is stammering, be kind - they're more afraid of you than you are of them :)

Wait a minute - so they don't like it, I don't like it... so why are we doing this?

Re: Japanese Change Trays

#85

Post by gumby » Wed, Jun 03, 2015, 10:08 PM UTC

devindotcom wrote: post #13

Is it possible that it could be related to change needing to be weighed to be determined legitimate, or simply as a way of measuring the amount? (like paying with gold dust in the Yukon or what have you) Beyond that I can see it being a result of extreme cultural stratification, as the article touches on - that it would be seen as demeaning for a higher-class person to put money directly into the lower-class person's…

That's a fascinating idea: they may have evolved from a weigh pan. As a protocol it makes sense: bring the customer the weigh pan and then put it straight on the scale. The customer can see you didn't manipulate the pan and both of you can see the result of the weigh.

This same procedure could explain the origin of similar usage in other countries.

Re: Japanese Change Trays

#86

Post by smegel » Wed, Jun 03, 2015, 10:12 PM UTC

> “It’s an interesting question,” the curator I spoke to allowed

I wonder if non native English speakers find this expression (or the use of "allowed") confusing.

Re: Japanese Change Trays

#87

Post by icelancer » Wed, Jun 03, 2015, 10:17 PM UTC

unsignedint wrote: post #35

ingsoc79 wrote: post #2

Pro tip: if you want to review the correct pronunciation of the word "gai-jin," skip the tray and hand your cash directly to the clerk.

They may call you gaijin, but you get perks for being one. I look completely like Japanese (well, I was born there; but I lived in the States long enough, and I am gaijin by my definition, but it's not by theirs) -- so when I travel to Japan, I'd naturally hand money to clerk, either he/she would either give me this funny looks, or told politely (occasionally frustrated) to place that money on the tray. So sometimes…

I am half-Japanese. I feel your pain of the "worst of both status." nihonjin I am not, in their eyes.

Re: Japanese Change Trays

#88

Post by timr » Wed, Jun 03, 2015, 10:22 PM UTC

unsignedint wrote: post #67

timr wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've experienced the opposite -- if I go to Europe, I look like everyone else, and the most likely outcome when they discover that I don't speak their language is irritation. Whenever I go to Asia, I'm treated like a novelty if I speak even a few words.

The way I feel it works is, if their perception is that you are not one of them you basically get extra credit for that, but if they don't see you that way, then you basically get your points deducted for each of "mistakes" you make. This really hurts me sometimes, because I know this and put so much effort try to fit in, but I basically get no praise for that, instead, I get nitpicked for noncompliances. In a case o…

Yep. And this has a downside -- expats in Asia tend to complain about "never fitting in" -- but it comes with a bonus dose of forgiveness for all sorts of social problems that the locals have to worry about.

But it's also true that people in the service industry are gruff no matter where you go. It's hard to be pre-school-polite to hundreds of illiterate adults a day.

Re: Japanese Change Trays

#89

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Jun 03, 2015, 10:31 PM UTC

HCIdivision17 wrote: post #81

dragonwriter wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can only be viewed as a loving response if you think its effective, rather than alienating. If you believe unbelievers are going to hell, and believe (or observe) that that approach to evangelization is alienating, then its more than just rude...

My two cents on this off-topic discussion... I've never been a part of the goin't'hell group, but in my fairly extensive experience as a young adult in an evangelical religious group, I certainly got the impression that the high touch personal approach was taken as more effective. Most people don't really like doing the door-to-door salesperson routine[0]. But they do it because it seems to work - assuming anyone act…

> It doesn't need to be high, though, since the risk and reward is so high (failure means more lost, success is a life).

I think the risk:reward is often seen as higher than it should be even given the "going to hell" assumption, because the failure cost of the attempt is seen as capped at zero because alienation is not considered. This might make sense in a context where your particular door-to-door attempt was very likely to be the only exposure to Christianity that the target would ever have, but (since alienation of an unbeliever in that case would have the same effect as not making that particular door-to-door conversion attempt), but somewhat unlikely in the modern world.

Re: Japanese Change Trays

#90

Post by HCIdivision17 » Wed, Jun 03, 2015, 10:34 PM UTC

littlepooghish wrote: post #84

HCIdivision17 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My two cents on this off-topic discussion... I've never been a part of the goin't'hell group, but in my fairly extensive experience as a young adult in an evangelical religious group, I certainly got the impression that the high touch personal approach was taken as more effective. Most people don't really like doing the door-to-door salesperson routine[0]. But they do it because it seems to work - assuming anyone act…

> If the person at the door preachin' the word looks awkward and is stammering, be kind - they're more afraid of you than you are of them :) Wait a minute - so they don't like it, I don't like it... so why are we doing this?

It's the theological equivalent of "eat your vegetables". The link to Penn's commentary explains it reasonably well: no one wants to tackle another person, but you'd do it to stop someone from getting hit by a truck. Likewise, if you're sincere in thinking educating others of the theological risks can save their life - like you're not just going through the church-on-sunday motions, personal feelings take a back seat. To them it's too important to let petty things get in the way.

Naturally, this can backfire pretty hard. But that's the cost of taking the faith seriously.