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F*** those popups – signing up those who deserve it

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Re: F*** those popups – signing up those who deserve it

#81

Post by gk1 »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #51
gk1 wrote: post #36

In case you're wondering why anyone would use these _obviously_ annoying popups, here's why: If done right, they actually work. Here's a real example: In March I added a delayed popup to my blog to invite people to subscribe for future updates about user acquisition. It was on a delayed timer so that the reader has a chance to at least get part-way through the post. Also, if you closed it out once then you wouldn't s…

There's no way I finish reading anything that pops up halfway through. That's just more callous manipulation of my browser. I leave instantly. If the back button doesn't work, I kill it. How many of those 11,848 people didn't finish your article? Do you care?

That's a good question, and I do care. And because I know the HN crowd is less tolerable of these things, I actually had a filter to NOT show it to visitors referred by HN.

And now, as I mentioned, I'm experimenting with a different type of prompt that I hope will lower that risk.

Re: F*** those popups – signing up those who deserve it

#82

Post by emodendroket »

Leftium wrote: post #73
rfrey wrote: post #23

I'm struggling with this now and I could use some insight. I absolutely share OP's loathing of these pop-ups. On the other hand, I'm just starting to try to drive traffic to my physical-product website (through PPC ads, facebook marketing, etc). I KNOW I need to try to collect some contact information. But I cannot find a way to do it that isn't appalling. - Collect on landing page? How do they know if they want to s…

How about pop-ups that only come up when the user is about to close the browser tab? The user is free to continue to close the tab if the pop-up doesn't interest them. Some demos: - http://www.popupdomination.com/ - http://optinmonster.com/features/exit-intent/

That's obnoxious and will not help with someone who's going ot use the back button or go to a different page.

Re: F*** those popups – signing up those who deserve it

#83

Post by mikeash »

gk1 wrote: post #65
mikeash wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many of those 232 signed up because they want to receive e-mails from you, and how many signed up because they thought they had to in order to proceed? If you put up a prompt saying "enter your e-mail address" then a lot of people will obey regardless of your reason for prompting. Most computer users don't really understand computers and have no idea when a site would legitimately require an e-mail address and wh…

For my case, I should clarify that I also have double opt-in enabled for my email list, which means someone doesn't _really_ get added to the list until they click a verification link in their email. So if anyone did enter their email just to continue, they're not counted in that 232. I don't think that's likely, though, since the message was clear about what it is: > Want more users? > OK, that was a cheap trick. Of…

People willingly enter their credentials after clicking on links in obvious phishing e-mails that they have no idea why they received. Do you really think it's unlikely that people clicked your verification link without intending to sign up for additional e-mails from you?

It looks to me like you're suffering from the base rate fallacy. You're basically saying, it's unlikely to sign up by accident, therefore most of my signups are intentional. But because the number of people who signed up is very small compared to the number of people who visited, that's not how it works.

Let's say that people sign up by accident with a probability of 1%. (We might break that down by saying that, for example, 10% of people who visit think that entering their e-mail address is mandatory, and 10% of people who receive the verification e-mail click the link either by accident or because they think they have to somehow.) That might seem like a nice low rate and thus almost all of your 232 signed up intentionally. Not so! If 0.2% of people sign up by accident then that means that 118 people signed up by accident, giving you about 50% of your people who signed up doing so by accident. If the accidental signup rate is 2% then that means there are no legitimate signups at all in that 232. I have no real idea what the true rate would be, but 1-2% is plausible to me, and so I don't think you can conclude anything about how well this stuff works from this information.

Re: F*** those popups – signing up those who deserve it

#84

Post by emodendroket »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #59
Alupis wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You find them annoying, but your customers probably wont. Remember you are not the best case when deciding what is effective at capturing your audience. You are more "internet savvy" or whatever... Popups, email marketing, retargeted ads, et al are very, very effective means of capturing an audience online.

Don't fool yourself. Everybody finds them annoying. Like the frog in the frying pan who sits as the heat is turned up, folks have begun to believe its the price of visiting the internet.

If "everyone" finds them annoying why are they clicking the links or giving their e-mail addresses?

Re: F*** those popups – signing up those who deserve it

#85

Post by emodendroket »

mplscoder wrote: post #37
rfrey wrote: post #23

I'm struggling with this now and I could use some insight. I absolutely share OP's loathing of these pop-ups. On the other hand, I'm just starting to try to drive traffic to my physical-product website (through PPC ads, facebook marketing, etc). I KNOW I need to try to collect some contact information. But I cannot find a way to do it that isn't appalling. - Collect on landing page? How do they know if they want to s…

If they scroll all the way to the bottom then have a bottom bar that appears.

Excellent; now 98% of users will never see it.

Re: F*** those popups – signing up those who deserve it

#86

Post by wernercd »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #51
gk1 wrote: post #36

In case you're wondering why anyone would use these _obviously_ annoying popups, here's why: If done right, they actually work. Here's a real example: In March I added a delayed popup to my blog to invite people to subscribe for future updates about user acquisition. It was on a delayed timer so that the reader has a chance to at least get part-way through the post. Also, if you closed it out once then you wouldn't s…

There's no way I finish reading anything that pops up halfway through. That's just more callous manipulation of my browser. I leave instantly. If the back button doesn't work, I kill it. How many of those 11,848 people didn't finish your article? Do you care?

How many people stop watching Friends or The Walking Dead because of a commercial? How many sales are made because of the commercials?

I'm all for adblockers... but to say that ads can't be unobtrusive and effective is ignoring the fact that they are obviously worth the effort.

Re: F*** those popups – signing up those who deserve it

#87

Post by mikeash »

emodendroket wrote: post #74
mikeash wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many of those 232 signed up because they want to receive e-mails from you, and how many signed up because they thought they had to in order to proceed? If you put up a prompt saying "enter your e-mail address" then a lot of people will obey regardless of your reason for prompting. Most computer users don't really understand computers and have no idea when a site would legitimately require an e-mail address and wh…

I've seen these be used effectively to solicit nonprofit donations, and no one is going to just start sharing their credit details and donation amount without some understanding of what they are doing.

I would dispute that (see 419 scams for example) but it ultimately doesn't matter, when measuring effectiveness of a donation, whether understanding took place. The real question there would then be whether the popups generated more donations than they scared away, which is tough to measure.

Re: F*** those popups – signing up those who deserve it

#88

Post by emodendroket »

techtalsky wrote: post #14

You know, the age of ACTUAL pop-up windows really sucked, and it was amazing when browsers rendered them largely obsolete by limiting how websites could launch another window but at least all of those had the X in the SAME EXACT PLACE. The new crop of lightboxed modal popups that are now ubiquitous are 100 times worse since they: - are modal - often work poorly on mobile - have as many different dismiss mechanisms as…

They are not worse. They're totally self-contained. Do you not remember trying to chase down multiple pop-up windows which themselves would spawn more pop-up windows when you went to close them? In the absolute worst case with modals, you can just hit back or close the tab.

Re: F*** those popups – signing up those who deserve it

#89

Post by emodendroket »

amyjess wrote: post #39
techtalsky wrote: post #14

You know, the age of ACTUAL pop-up windows really sucked, and it was amazing when browsers rendered them largely obsolete by limiting how websites could launch another window but at least all of those had the X in the SAME EXACT PLACE. The new crop of lightboxed modal popups that are now ubiquitous are 100 times worse since they: - are modal - often work poorly on mobile - have as many different dismiss mechanisms as…

I really wish there was a way to globally disable all lightboxes without having to disable JavaScript entirely. Maybe a Machine Learning model to prevent scripts from executing if the classifier indicates it will spawn a lightbox...

I, too, wish there were a feature that would break Web applications that use modals for marginal benefit.

Re: F*** those popups – signing up those who deserve it

#90

Post by gk1 »

untog wrote: post #62
gk1 wrote: post #36

In case you're wondering why anyone would use these _obviously_ annoying popups, here's why: If done right, they actually work. Here's a real example: In March I added a delayed popup to my blog to invite people to subscribe for future updates about user acquisition. It was on a delayed timer so that the reader has a chance to at least get part-way through the post. Also, if you closed it out once then you wouldn't s…

Do you have stats on how many users left the page when shown that prompt?

I don't. I can find out but not going to bother right now.

As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, I'm not so concerned about people who left. If a small popup is enough to make them leave, then they weren't interested enough in the article to begin with. But still, if I find that the less-invasive method is just as effective then I'll be happy.

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