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Why do people waste so much time at work?

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#81

Post by LLWM »

floppydisk wrote: post #55
Foomandoonian wrote: post #12

"We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because…

We tried this idea, in America, at the Jamestown Colony. They initially established it in a "socialist" vein wherein everyone received an equal share of the proceeds (food, etc) regardless of their contributions to the colony. The colony barely survived because people lacked the incentive to work and produce because there was no advantage to them working more than their peers. Why should I work to produce an excess w…

Well, yes. Most people who suggest such things aren't considering what it would take to get humans to work because they assume all the work will be done by robotic slaves.

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#82

Post by floppydisk »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #67
floppydisk wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We tried this idea, in America, at the Jamestown Colony. They initially established it in a "socialist" vein wherein everyone received an equal share of the proceeds (food, etc) regardless of their contributions to the colony. The colony barely survived because people lacked the incentive to work and produce because there was no advantage to them working more than their peers. Why should I work to produce an excess w…

There was nothing "socialist" about Jamestown. Many of the initial settlers were aristocrats who had no experience of work, and no interest in it. Unsurprisingly this didn't end well. >If we create a culture that tells people they don't have to work to receive those benefits, it will disicentivize people to actually work. We already have a culture like this. Those who believe they own an entirely imaginary thing call…

> There was nothing "socialist" about Jamestown. Many of the initial settlers were aristocrats who had no experience of work, and no interest in it.

The parent's quote specifically proposed the notion of people not working. This doesn't disprove the argument or address the point about the structure of Jamestown's initial income distribution mechanism.

> We already have a culture like this. Those who believe they own an entirely imaginary thing called "money" believe they're entitled to live off the efforts who don't.

How are you defining work? Money is a proxy for value produced at some point in time and you can either save it or immediately spend it. If someone acquired a reserve of value, how are they living off the efforts of other people? They still must buy goods and services like everyone else.

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#83

Post by LLWM »

rorykoehler wrote: post #48
sillygoose wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living Right, because valuable things don't actually cost anything to produce! That's why they can just be (automatically) handed out by some big Magic Nanny-Fairy Machinery. We should all just get whatever we want, because we deserve it!

Every time there is any thread about anything remotely socially progressive you are there espousing your highly conservative viewpoint. This made me curious and I am really trying to understand what life experiences could have led you to have such views. I have a few questions that might help paint a clearer picture if you would be so kind? If you decide to answer please answer honestly. Where did you grow up? What w…

I'm the child of substinence farmers and have had to go hungry and without shelter for multiple days. Am I allowed to hold such opinions?

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#84

Post by ajuc »

chippy wrote: post #30
dylanjermiah wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's an example of a proposed technological break through which can do the work of the adult population?

1 drone replacing 50 soldiers on the ground?

Imagine the efficiency increase if countries just did Starcraft 2 match instead.

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#85

Post by mtbcoder »

mistaken wrote: post #40
Foomandoonian wrote: post #12

"We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because…

I don't think that having jobs is the problem. A lot of people can benefit from having jobs. Ideally a workplace should provide a way to develop people, a stable income and clear goals. It is also less risky for the employer (doesn't have to search for someone when a task needs to be done) and the employees (stable income). I personally like to work in an environment where I can decide what has to be done, how to do…

> Ideally a workplace should provide a way to develop people, a stable income and clear goals.

This can only happen when you have a working, stable government that is investing in its citizenry, infrastructure, education, etc. What worries me tremendously these days, at least from my US perspective, is that the very definition of "stable income" is constantly changing as income inequality expands and we put in place policies which really only benefit the wealthiest corporations and individuals.

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#86

Post by rayiner »

rorykoehler wrote: post #48
sillygoose wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living Right, because valuable things don't actually cost anything to produce! That's why they can just be (automatically) handed out by some big Magic Nanny-Fairy Machinery. We should all just get whatever we want, because we deserve it!

Every time there is any thread about anything remotely socially progressive you are there espousing your highly conservative viewpoint. This made me curious and I am really trying to understand what life experiences could have led you to have such views. I have a few questions that might help paint a clearer picture if you would be so kind? If you decide to answer please answer honestly. Where did you grow up? What w…

> Every time there is any thread about anything remotely socially progressive you are there espousing your highly conservative viewpoint.

I don't think it's a liberal versus conservative issue so much as an individualist versus collectivist issue. I think social conservatives, who have a predisposition towards thinking of communities in terms of reciprocal social obligations, have a role to play yet in pushing forward things like basic income.

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#87

Post by LLWM »

exizt88 wrote: post #14
sitkack wrote: post #5

Because if they got their job done and left they would be fired. If they got their job done, they would be given more work. So one takes the maximal amount of time to do a task given the requirement that they be in the office for 8+ hrs a day.

If they have 8 hours of work time and finished their tasks in 6, does that mean they have exhausted their usefulness to the business? Why not spend these 2 hours doing some small miscellaneous tasks?

Because now you are responsible for all followups on those small miscellaneous tasks, and those might come up when you don't have two extra hours in the day.

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#88

Post by floppydisk »

jacalata wrote: post #65
floppydisk wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We tried this idea, in America, at the Jamestown Colony. They initially established it in a "socialist" vein wherein everyone received an equal share of the proceeds (food, etc) regardless of their contributions to the colony. The colony barely survived because people lacked the incentive to work and produce because there was no advantage to them working more than their peers. Why should I work to produce an excess w…

Most people argue that technological advances made since Jamestown mean that we literally absolutely don't need everyone to work, because we are no longer an impoverished subsistence society.

I concur, we've made significant technological strides since then and it's nice that we've pushed our standard of living from swampy subsistence to one of the best in the world. However, that doesn't address the thrust of the argument which is if you create a society that rewards sky-gazing it creates the probability of a disincentive to work. Are there counter examples where this kind of society as worked in the past, and if so, why aren't they with us/significantly more influential today?

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#89

Post by douche »

Anderkent wrote: post #73
douche wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I support the idea of a basic income, but only if it is a replacement for the system of piecemeal welfare programs and tax-breaks that we currently have. The entire system could get so much simpler than it currently is. You get your basic income check for X dollars a month. If you work a job, run a business, whatever, in addition to that, you get taxed Y% on your earnings, excluding the basic income amount. No deduct…

Of course some people need more than just basic income to survive - if your medical expenses are 10x basic income, and you cut out all other welfare, how are those people meant to compensate? There are some kinds of welfare that you can replace with basic income, but not all of them.

I should have distinguished, but I wasn't including healthcare. More along the lines of TANF, food stamps, fuel assistance, unemployment, all the other drips and drabs of money that can be applied for if you know about it and can work the bureaucracy.

US healthcare is fucked nine ways from sunday; maybe someday we'll adopt something on the Canadian pattern (I've had emergency surgery done in Quebec on vacation, anesthesia, overnight stay, 70-mile ambulance ride, the works - and the total was 1/10th of what it would cost in the US.)

Social Security is another sacred cow that you probably couldn't touch, at least until it goes tits up because all the boomers start drawing and there aren't enough of us left to pay in.

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#90

Post by easyaspie »

Anderkent wrote: post #64
floppydisk wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We tried this idea, in America, at the Jamestown Colony. They initially established it in a "socialist" vein wherein everyone received an equal share of the proceeds (food, etc) regardless of their contributions to the colony. The colony barely survived because people lacked the incentive to work and produce because there was no advantage to them working more than their peers. Why should I work to produce an excess w…

>why should they if their excess production goes to subsidizing non-producers who stare at the sky all day? There's a lot of room for manouver between 'everyone gets exactly the same amount no matter their contribution' and 'everyone must be productive (net-positive on the society) to sustain themselves'. So, reasons you might contribute when even the sky-gazers can survive at a decent level: 1. Because the extra pay…

i like reason number 2 maybe 'cause literally our life is so boring hehehe

sorry for bad english

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