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U.S. NSA domestic phone spying program illegal: appeals court

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. NSA domestic phone spying program illegal: appeals court

#81

Post by mikecb »

a3n wrote: post #56
mikecb wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mosaic theory doesn't go that far, but in the age of widespread statistical inference, it is an important development. Generally speaking, the public is entitled to all evidence. Certain rights, such as the Fifth amendment, protect you from being compelled to testify against yourself, but you have no right to prevent, nor does anyone else have the right to refuse, to testify against or about you, except for a very sm…

But the 4th does qualify with "unreasonable," and dragnets without "specific" suspicions are unreasonable and unconstitutional.

Indeed, and there's where we need mosaic the most. As it stands, the collection of this type of data (Smith) is not even a search, and therefore the court does not even consider whether or not it was reasonable. It just stops there. If it were found to be a search, it might still come in, but perhaps for a different reason. There's a great cartoon, which contains this awesome flowchart: http://lawcomic.net/guide/?p=2256

Re: U.S. NSA domestic phone spying program illegal: appeals court

#82

Post by [deleted] »

ericcumbee wrote: post #70
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That one's easy to get around. Congress does budgets. If Congress has backbone (but not 2/3 majority backbone), they can pass a budget that de-funds NSA to whatever degree desired. The president can veto it. But then there's no budget, so there's still no money for the NSA...

The easy part is that would take only 1/2 of one chamber. the hard part is forcing a government shutdown is risky business, and maintaining the resolve of the caucus becomes more difficult the longer one drags on.

[deleted]

Re: U.S. NSA domestic phone spying program illegal: appeals court

#83

Post by [deleted] »

im3w1l wrote: post #49
maze-le wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't be so optimistic. A bit of fearmongering here and there. Some idiots from the middle east (or wherever) spreading fear and terror... et viola: New justification for more funds.

It's funny because the head of ISIS came from Saddam's intelligence services . I wonder if they have a man or two in NSA...

[deleted]

Re: U.S. NSA domestic phone spying program illegal: appeals court

#85

Post by wehadfun »

wehadfun wrote: post #36
toyg wrote: post #29

Now it would be the right time to ask for a presidential pardon for Edward Snowden. Now that candidates are gearing up their campaign platforms, it would be a great vote winner both on the left and on the (libertarian) right. If you live in a "defining primary" state, please go and ask the candidates as soon as they show up.

We may be glad with what he did but do we want to encourage this type of thing? I think quietly "being nice" to him is fine but a public pardon, a welcome hope party, adoring media coverage may inspire some idiot to be the next Snowden and we probably do not want that.

1. I did not criticize what Snowden did. He was very careful and responsible.

2. All I was trying to say is that turning Snowden into a public mainstream hero could inspire some idiot that "wants to be a hero too" to do something dumb.

Re: U.S. NSA domestic phone spying program illegal: appeals court

#86

Post by peterlvilim »

a3n wrote: post #9

I'm sure the NSA is laughing at the judge and his decision. "How many divisions does he have? Bwa-ha-ha-ha." https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin

That statement ended up proving to be quite ironic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_Paul_II#Role_in_the_...

Re: U.S. NSA domestic phone spying program illegal: appeals court

#87

Post by Igglyboo »

patzerhacker wrote: post #77
phaus wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it be a good time to ask for a pardon? The only thing the current administration loves more than jailing whistleblowers is drone-striking civilians. Why ask when the answer is obviously going to be 'Fuck No?'

Or even when the answer is going to be yes? Snowden shouldn't need a pardon for what he's done. Any federal prosecutor that would even consider laying charges should be removed from office immediately.

Snowden very blatantly broke laws, if a federal prosecutor doesn't charge him they should be removed from office.

The laws he broke being immoral/unconstitutional/for the greater good is to be determined by the judge/jury, not the prosecutor.

Re: U.S. NSA domestic phone spying program illegal: appeals court

#89

Post by drjesusphd »

wehadfun wrote: post #36
toyg wrote: post #29

Now it would be the right time to ask for a presidential pardon for Edward Snowden. Now that candidates are gearing up their campaign platforms, it would be a great vote winner both on the left and on the (libertarian) right. If you live in a "defining primary" state, please go and ask the candidates as soon as they show up.

We may be glad with what he did but do we want to encourage this type of thing? I think quietly "being nice" to him is fine but a public pardon, a welcome hope party, adoring media coverage may inspire some idiot to be the next Snowden and we probably do not want that.

"This type of thing" can be analyzed on a case-by-case basis. If, emboldened by a Snowden partdon, future whistleblowers take it too far, the president can decide whether or not they are eligible for pardon when the time comes.

The pendulum has swung too far away for this to be a credible objection. Yes, I do want to encourage what Snowden did.

Re: U.S. NSA domestic phone spying program illegal: appeals court

#90

Post by matheweis »

While this outcome is encouraging, any other outcome from this case would have been absolutely shocking. Even the actual author of the "Patriot Act" is on the record that section 215 is being interpreted incorrectly: http://venturebeat.com/2013/06/06/nsa-patriot-act/
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