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Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#81

Post by carlmcqueen »

ux-app wrote: post #65
michaelt wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first they tried to give passionate content providers a way to also make some money. Given that the "passionate content providers" only make 25% of what users pay, I think that's a very generous interpretation. Edit: It doesn't matter if it's Valve or Bethesda or the tooth fairy that takes the remaining 75% - the fact is this system does little to accomplish the goal of "giving passionate content providers a way t…

I haven't been paying extra close attention to the whole fiasco, but there's something that I don't understand. Are people really more in favor of modders getting 100% of $0 rather than 25% of $X? Is there more to this debate that I'm missing?

I think people are used to the apple cut when thinking about the 70% and getting angry, rather than using an already marketed brand to start with, no starting in obscurity.

What I was more concered about was the 'quicksilver' effect. When apple hired the dev who made the tool, it just stopped getting updated.

Everytime a game was patched or updated, what % of the mods would then become unusable, despite paying for it? Can't complain when it's free, but if you paid for the mod is there an expectation of it being working for a period of time? What was that period of time?

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#82

Post by lsaferite »

jonlucc wrote: post #52
jobvandervoort wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I understood that was a value set by Bethesda, not Valve.

The latest I've seen is that Valve gets 30%, then the publisher decides what the rest of the split looks like. If they had released the exact same system, but said the modders get 75%, I think this whole ordeal would have been avoided. It's interesting to me that it was apparently better to give modders nothing than to give them 25%.

I personally found Bethesda getting any split quite distasteful. They produced the game and made their money on game sales. If they continue to be responsive to bug reports and/or adding new features to the game then perhaps I can see a small amount going to them.

Valve taking a cut I understand as they handle the sales and distribution platform. I'm not sure I think 30% is fair, but that's a different issue.

As a revenue split I'd be much more on board with the modder getting 75% and the rest being to everyone else.

Of course, then you need to consider how mod dependency is handled. And you have to look at how long term mod support is handled. What happens when the modder goes away or Bethesda releases an update that breaks existing mods.

The whole thing is a big nasty ball of problems.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#83

Post by Mtinie »

mmf wrote: post #39
stupidcar wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with everything you said, but it seemed like a lot of the more nuanced feedback on this was drowned out by a subset of gamers having a screaming tantrum at the suggestion of paying anything for a mod, regardless of where the money was going. I'm hopeful that Valve will eventually try this again on a new game with a fairer compensation structure and a better community infrastructure in place. I'm not so hopefu…

I wonder what would happen if GitHub placed a clone fee and split it between itself and the repo owner...

If that was an option, but not the only option, it could make for an interesting addition to their business model.

  * Public repositories (fork for free)  
  * Premium repositories (fork for a fee)  
  * Private repositories (restricted to content owner who pays the fee)

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#84

Post by vacri »

castell wrote: post #66
gkwelding wrote: post #2

I think Valve/Steam (and Bethesda) really screwed up on this one. Although the idea of modders being fairly compensated for their work is a great idea the execution was poor at best. Only 25% going to the content creators? Really? And a poor returns mechanism, getting a refund gets you banned from the steam store for 7 days to stop abuse. That's a poor returns policy when you're buying things like mods that might be…

Bethesda introduced DLCs to the PC gaming world in 2006: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elder_Scrolls_IV:_Oblivion#... The first update came as a set of specialized armor for Oblivion‍ '​s ridable horses; released on April 3, 2006. Although gamers generally displayed enthusiasm for the concept of micropayments for downloadable in-game content, many expressed their dissatisfaction at the price they had to pay for th…

Valve introduced DRM to the PC gaming world in late 2004

Utter nonsense. Have you never played an abandonware game from the late 80s and early 90s? "Enter the first letter of the third word on page 14 of the manual"? I used to get pirated Amiga 500 floppies with the copy protection stripped out and a little boot animation from the pirates inserted.

Valve introduced Steam to the PC gaming world... but then again, it's their product. And when all is said and done, Steam has been a significant net benefit.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#85

Post by TheHypnotist »

gkwelding wrote: post #2

I think Valve/Steam (and Bethesda) really screwed up on this one. Although the idea of modders being fairly compensated for their work is a great idea the execution was poor at best. Only 25% going to the content creators? Really? And a poor returns mechanism, getting a refund gets you banned from the steam store for 7 days to stop abuse. That's a poor returns policy when you're buying things like mods that might be…

Modders should be able to ask for donations, nothing more. They should see this as an opportunity to create great content based off of a much larger and more established game. If they want to get compensated, perhaps their great content will take off and one day they can make their own standalone, but until then, donations only. See Counter-Strike, DayZ, Day of Defeat, Team Fortress, Insurgency, et al.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#86

Post by bane »

danr4 wrote: post #15

Ha! They actually caved! Incredible. I've been following the evolution of the situation very closely, as i'm actually a big believer in paid mods. Valve's problem, I believe, was trying to take an existing ecosystem/market that wasn't geared towards financial rewards, and tried to force it on it. Even if 75% would have gone to the mod developers, the community would still resist the change, since that's what the huma…

> Compare this to the world of software development and open source - which is thriving. Mega corps & the little guy/girl building production quality libraries and systems which generate big ass revenue streams.

Open source software companies rarely generate money from software, it's almost all in services. Games don't have an equivalent services model e.g. "Hire iD rep to come to your house to install the latest Quake Mods $175/hr, minimum engagement 6 months FTE"

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#87

Post by lsaferite »

okasaki wrote: post #34
toxican wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet people (primarily redditors) were swearing up and down that our complaints meant nothing and that we were wasting our time and that Valve only cared about money. Like seriously, have those people been paying attention? If anybody is going to listen to their userbase, admit their mistake, and do a 180, it's Valve.

The sentiment probably comes from experiencing Valve's customer support, which is a lot like Google's - either - the automated system solve your problem, or - you have enough influence to generate bad press for them, or - your problem will most likely be ignored.

Gabe has acknowledged how horrible the customer support is and they are, supposedly, working on a solution.

I count myself fortunate to have never needed to interact with the customer support.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#88

Post by JoeAltmaier »

vacri wrote: post #73
Vaskivo wrote: post #64

I gathered my thoughts in a comment on the Bethesda blog post: http://www.bethblog.com/2015/04/27/why-were-trying-paid-skyr... TL,DR: Bethesda doesn't deserve the 45% of the sale, specially when they are charging 60$ for the game. IMO, they deserve 0%, for they have created nothing (and were already paid for the game/tools). And mods had value to the game, and increase it's lifetime. Two problems with paid mods: 1 -…

they deserve 0%, for they have created nothing Not true at all. They created an attractive gaming environment and a mechanism for modding. They should get some percentage, like a royalty, but taking twice as much as the people who write the mods is patently ridiculous.

Its arguable they should charge a fixed rate for facilitating the creation of the mod. Not a percentage of all downloads. I know, its common for content delivery platforms to charge a percentage, but its far from logical. Its just traditional. In the sense of 'what the market will bear'.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#89

Post by Lancey »

smackfu wrote: post #77
vacri wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they deserve 0%, for they have created nothing Not true at all. They created an attractive gaming environment and a mechanism for modding. They should get some percentage, like a royalty, but taking twice as much as the people who write the mods is patently ridiculous.

>They created an attractive gaming environment and a mechanism for modding Isn't that what paying the $60 for the game pays for?

The $60 pays for the game, but to develop a mod for it, you're using tools they've made for the game. They didn't have to provide those tools, they're an additional service that Bethesda offers. Bethesda also added workshop support in the first place. 45% is outrageous, but a 10% cut would be acceptable and help fund the development of better tools and improvements to the mod community.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#90

Post by Navarr »

erikb wrote: post #32

Let's not underestimate what Valve has done here. At first they tried to give passionate content providers a way to also make some money. That's a huge thing. Most modders can tell you about it. Then they screwed up, which can happen if you try something the first time. I think it's okay, but I understand why people are pissed. Then the boss himself comes and talks to people on reddit to see what is going on. He gets…

Hijacking for visibility (I'm so late to the party..)

Valve has not ended the paid mods programme. They've only turned it off for Skyrim.

From the Valve post:

> We're going to remove the payment feature from the Skyrim workshop.

They're very explicitly removing it only from Skyrim.

Personally, I'm completely okay with the paid mod system - and I think the reason it failed so spectacularly was because of Bethesda and the invisibleness of the "Valve takes 30%, Bethesda takes 45%" - But it is important to note

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