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Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

azure.microsoft.com

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Re: Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

#81

Post by lawnchair_larry »

dikaiosune wrote: post #45
dordoka wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks a lot for your answer. We create a separate container for each application, as it seemed like the correct approach. In our company we do have several "levels" of library (even jvm) version requirements. Containers have been very helpful to easy the pain that was managing that on the server side.

I've found that building fat JARs with all dependencies bundled solves a lot of the same dependency management issues containers can be used for. And it does it without container overhead.

How do you apply security updates to the dependencies?

Re: Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

#82

Post by justincormack »

lawl wrote: post #39
throwaway1979 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So this is like boot2docker ... on Windows? You have a VM and you have containers inside it. This is not the same as containers on baremetal. But that is fine .. my confusion is the OS inside the VM. Is that Linux or Windows? Normally, I can run Ubuntu and Centos-based containers on my box. Can I run these as Hyper V containers? What about dot net? Can that be containerized.

No. When you talk about containers, you talk about operating system level virtualization[0]. This means you have one kernel, with multiple user spaces. You can run a CentOS container on Ubuntu because both use a Linux Kernel. What will actually happen is that CentOS will use your already booted Ubuntu Kernel. So unless Windows switches to a Linux Kernel or vice versa you will never be able to run one as a container o…

You might be able to run Windows containers under Wine....

Re: Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

#83

Post by lsaferite »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #81
dikaiosune wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found that building fat JARs with all dependencies bundled solves a lot of the same dependency management issues containers can be used for. And it does it without container overhead.

How do you apply security updates to the dependencies?

You generate a fresh build with the updated libraries.

Re: Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

#85

Post by sudioStudio64 »

alttab wrote: post #43
sudioStudio64 wrote: post #4

REALLY looking forward to this. We've needed container style deployments on Windows forever. This is actually going to make my life better...at least this part, anyway.

Imagine what switching to linux could do for you.

The software that I work on is Windows based.

I usually get down-voted for comments like yours...but hey. HN...what ya gonna do...

Re: Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

#86

Post by antod »

simonjgreen wrote: post #33

Top it off with SSH access to PowerShell and we're all set? (Something something something dark side)

Yes please. And native rsync interoperability too? I've love to banish cygwin from my Windows servers.

Although I'm finding the remote powershell execution from a Linux machine use case is now handled quite well by tools like Salt (via ZeroMQ to the minion) and Ansible (via WinRM). Native SSH would still be good though for tunnelling etc.

Re: Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

#87

Post by taylorbrown »

justinsb wrote: post #12
CoreySanders wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey Justin, is this what you are looking for: https://github.com/Microsoft/docker . This is where the Windows team is doing the work to add Windows Server support to the Docker engine. We are working with Docker Inc. to plan the PR up, once it is ready for primetime. Note, I am an engineer in the Azure team...

Thanks for the link - I checked out the master branch and it didn't have any real diffs on it. Which branch should I be looking at?

Hi Justin, We are doing most of our working in a branch right now (https://github.com/microsoft/docker/tree/jjh-argon), as we stabilize the Windows Server Container and Hyper-V Container foundation the work we are doing to develop new drivers into the docker engine will stabilize and we’ll be pushing it upstream.

-Taylor, PM on Windows @taylorb_msft

Re: Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

#88

Post by spullara »

dordoka wrote: post #44
spullara wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Essentially, Java is already run like containers, that container being an application server of some sort. Very rarely is Java software really dependent on specific packages being installed or even which operation system aside from a particular Java VM. When you add another container layer you generally are just adding more overhead and further you have issues with correctly setting some tunable parameters like heap…

Thanks for your reply spullara. We might be one of those rare cases where we do need different packages and libraries for each applications. It's the pain that we have to suffer having to maintain several "legacy" apps. Regarding your view on an app server being a container of some sort, I do agree. We are actually starting to develop apps to be run using embeded app servers (with Spring Boot), as it fits better when…

Makes sense. I've been recommending Dropwizard for years for similar reasons.

Re: Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

#89

Post by pweissbrod »

kirinan wrote: post #7

This will be what takes containers into the mainstream businesses. Companies may adopt docker or other instead of this, but Microsoft creating their own version of it means its a viable technology. Im more interested in the new frameworks and technologies that get adopted because of this than the fact that its in use. Traditional Java web projects that are hosted on Tomcat/JBoss don't run well inside containers but t…

At first I was like :D

Then I was like :(

App containers are SORELY needed in microsoft ecosystem.

But whats up with the HyperV vendor lock-in? Looks like to those of us already investing in vmware or EC2 etc get the shaft...

Re: Microsoft announces Hyper-V Containers

#90

Post by quotemstr »

ochoseis wrote: post #26
kolencherry wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the TechNet Announcement: "we removed the GUI stack, 32 bit support (WOW64), MSI and a number of default Server Core components. There is no local logon or Remote Desktop support. All management is performed remotely via WMI and PowerShell. We are also adding Windows Server Roles and Features using Features on Demand and DISM. We are improving remote manageability via PowerShell with Desired State Configuration…

Since this is all remote powershell, it would be nice if MS/Windows introduced a native SSH server. That would probably help drive some conversion for people used to the posix world.

In order to make a native SSH server, Windows need pseudoconsoles (analogous to pseudoterminals in POSIXland). That is, it must be possible for a random program to create a handle that supports operations like SetConsoleCursorPosition without having to call AllocConsole. Calling AllocConsole is a problem because there's no way to monitor what programs are doing with that console except scraping it. (The accessibility hooks are insufficient because if you try to access the console from inside them, you deadlock, and if you queue an access request for later, you race.)

Since consoles are real kernel objects since Windows 8 and talk to conhost over IPC anyway, this feature is eminently doable. It's been my top feature requests for years. Nobody's gotten around to it.

Pseudoconsoles would be a bit more complicated than POSIX pseudoterminals because Windows consoles have more features, but the basic concept would transplant beautifully. It'd also make Cygwin a lot better.

I miss working on operating systems.

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