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The Real Reason College Tuition Costs So Much

nytimes.com

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Re: The Real Reason College Tuition Costs So Much

#81

Post by 67726e »

jostylr wrote: post #71
jakejake wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people treat college like a four year vacation with planned activities. In which case the price is really quite cheap. Looking back, I was guilty of this attitude at various times.

There is no need to feel guilty. In general, many people need to detox from a childhood that lacked sufficient freedom to explore and become a full human being. Their internal programming then takes college and its new freedom as an opportunity to rectify that. It is quite a reasonable approach given our K-12 schooling setup and its intense control of children's time during the day.

While you obviously have the freedom to do what you wish, I got the impression that colleges are going further along the path of hand-holding to cater to those who can't/won't make that K-12 transition. From speaking with my coworkers who were alumni of the university I was attending and were of the same major, it really seemed like the rigor disappeared. The amount of times a professor would extend deadlines, cull portions of an assignment, or just flat out cancel it because of students complaining became enough to drive me away from classes. In several other courses, we had adjuncts that were former K-12 educators and they frequently treated us as their former students. In fact, the final straw that lead to me leaving the university entirely was an incident where I was castigated by an adjunct German professor for the atrocity of discretely pulling out my phone in order to translate a word so I could properly ask a question of the professor. This was only a few years ago, and having tutored a few friends through the years, I have a good idea of the state of things. They haven't changed.

Re: The Real Reason College Tuition Costs So Much

#82

Post by JabavuAdams »

baking wrote: post #63
mdasen wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economists sometimes talk about different types of quality: actual quality and perceived quality. There has been a lot of spending that has been directed toward perceived quality at American Universities. That includes a lot of new buildings, a lot of maintenance, etc. In a certain way, it becomes a race to spend more. The more you spend, the better students you can attract, the better your status is and your alumni…

>If you're fairly well off (parents earning $120,000/year), you can easily get a free education at one of the top schools. It is great that Stanford was able to offer free tuition (not free education) to whatever portion of the 2,144 students they admitted this year had family incomes under $125,000 and "typical assets" but it is definitely not easy to get into Stanford. As a family with $140,000 in income and what I…

Wow, that's steep! I would expect a dual-income family making about $140k total to be able to pay $25k/year for schooling without making other lifestyle adjustments, but 65k-70k for one student -- that's outrageous!

Re: The Real Reason College Tuition Costs So Much

#83

Post by rayiner »

xorcist wrote: post #50
adventured wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden also doesn't have universities that match up to the US when it comes to a ~$50k tuition tier. $50,000 per year is a lot, and buys you access to the best universities on earth, most of which are in the US. Harvard's tuition is around $44,000 for example.

Sweden is a country with the population of New York, but have one (sometimes two) universitites in a global top ten ranking of their respective subjects. So if you must compare to something US, do it with a large city.

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-ranki....

Sweden has two universities in the top ~100. Boston has three. New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Atlanta, San Francisco, and Pittsburgh have two, mostly in the top 50.

Re: The Real Reason College Tuition Costs So Much

#84

Post by ForHackernews »

itg wrote: post #61
jeffwass wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What subjects are your friends studying? I did my PhD in physics in the USA, and for all of my fellow physics grad students, we not only had free tuition but we were given jobs (they didn't pay much but it was enough to live on). Ie, students were either given Research Assistant roles from their Adviser's funding, or Teaching Assistant roles by the department. The lucky ttudents with fellowships didn't need to teach…

He probably means masters degree. I was looking at a few and couldn't find any that were fully funded. This was in stem programs at top schools.

It's extremely rare for a masters degree to be funded. Most PhD programs are, because PhD students provide cheap labor to the college in the form of TA and lab technician work.

Re: The Real Reason College Tuition Costs So Much

#85

Post by jeffreyrogers »

pconner wrote: post #76
chrisBob wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The extra features are all based on how US students choose a school. Here undergrads go to the school with the beautiful student union, the gym with a juice bar and climbing wall, and want to live in a room near the nicest 24 hour dining hall with made to order stir fry and sandwiches. Having granite countertops in the dorm room also helps. This is just how the select the specific university though. The target group…

I don't think amenities are that big a factor in college choice. For people I know, price and prestige of the school are weighted way more than other factors such as location or quality of the school's buildings.

It depends on the environment you're in. At my college everyone came here because of the prestige (and generous financial aid). At my high school people chose schools based largely on size, location, perceived fun, etc. if they couldn't get in to a top tier school. In my hometown people chose based on closeness to home, whether it was a party school or not, etc.

Re: The Real Reason College Tuition Costs So Much

#86

Post by jkestner »

jakejake wrote: post #79
jostylr wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no need to feel guilty. In general, many people need to detox from a childhood that lacked sufficient freedom to explore and become a full human being. Their internal programming then takes college and its new freedom as an opportunity to rectify that. It is quite a reasonable approach given our K-12 schooling setup and its intense control of children's time during the day.

It's kinda too bad that the expected path is to go right to college after high school. Because,although it can be a lot of fun, it's an awfully expensive way to "detox" if one isn't even taking advantage of the school and its resources. I might have been more productive being a ski bum for a couple of years before heading to school.

I think the year-off strategy is a good one. Too many people go back to grad school almost just for a re-do. 18 is too young to pick a career - I switched majors twice in the first two years.

I want to formulate a better set of options and incentives for my kids. To start, I could chip in for some tuition if they take a year off, or just minimally support them for that year as long as they leave home. The pull of peers (let's go to college together even though we'll drift apart after!) is strong, though.

gp may be on to something about detox. I'll have to allow them experiences growing up (provided they don't get taken by CPS).

Re: The Real Reason College Tuition Costs So Much

#87

Post by philangist »

cheald wrote: post #65
nickysielicki wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One criticism I have of education systems is that they structurally encourage only superficially studying content. Let's take my compilers class as an example. I go to a 75 minute lecture 2 times a week and I do about 4 hours of homework a week. I do this over 18 weeks. That's only roughly 120 hours of study over the course of a semester. That's only as many hours as most full time employees work every 3 weeks! And t…

> if I handed you a résumé, without a bachelor's degree, but instead included my github profile and a list of books I've read cover to cover and some open source contributions, am I going to get the salary I am worth? Speaking as someone who makes hiring decisions, a strong Github profile means more to me than the school you went to or the degree you have. When I hire people, I care about their ability to get things…

Speaking as a twenty year old who didn't go to school and doesn't have a degree would you hire me - or at least consider me for an interview - based off my github here (https://github.com/philangist?tab=repositories). I am actually gainfully employed right now at a job I like a lot, but I sometimes worry that I might be pigeonholing myself due to my lack of a formal degree.

Re: The Real Reason College Tuition Costs So Much

#88

Post by jkestner »

snogglethorpe wrote: post #3

One thing I've noticed about American universities compared with universities in other countries (Japan, Korea, UK), is that almost every decent American university I've seen seems to be really well-maintained, in that the campus is very clean, in good repair, frequently renovated, etc, even the out-of-the-public-eye spaces (grad student offices and the like). Japanese and Korean universities, on the other hand, are…

Those are the things that administrators care about. Can't bring in more money if you don't have good-looking brochures. Like a lot that administrators do (including replicate themselves), it's considered a marketing expense. Because building reputation takes too much time.

Re: The Real Reason College Tuition Costs So Much

#90

Post by melling »

We should all try to remember this because it's not what we've been told:

"What cannot be defended, however, is the claim that tuition has risen because public funding for higher education has been cut. Despite its ubiquity, this claim flies directly in the face of the facts."

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