In College and Hiding from Scary Ideas • Hacker News Board

Re: In College and Hiding from Scary Ideas

#81

Post by cheatsheet » Sun, Mar 22, 2015, 2:12 PM UTC

tunesmith wrote: post #8

It wasn't so long ago that "trigger warning" wasn't even a common phrase. I remember thinking about this in college, though, because I was in a relationship with someone who would get angry at people for expressing input that was too closely related to recent private trauma she had been through. I didn't really understand it because I had always trained myself to judge the producer of input by the intent of the produ…

I am sort of on the fence on this. On one hand, I do not like pursuing ignorance. On the other, I do not objectively know the difference between a mind that is repeatedly triggered by random noise that can immediately bring my mind back into a state of flipping between catatonia and hyper-stress/hyper-alert, and a mind that is able to control information flow and pursue it's goals (such as a phd and happiness in life).

I've been in recovery from realizing and recognizing the effects of my trauma for almost 4 years now. You talking about rape does not bring me back into the mental state it once did. But I don't know how I got here, besides through time (and sheer determination to be the best I can be, and not let my past haunt me). But that said, if you reminded me of my abuser, I don't think I could control my reaction so much. And hyper anxiety / reactive shutdown is not something that is easy to remove oneself from.

I think your attitude is very intelligent, but I think you need to add a little more empathetic wiggle room for things you may not understand entirely.

Re: In College and Hiding from Scary Ideas

#82

Post by mgkimsal » Sun, Mar 22, 2015, 2:29 PM UTC

tomjen3 wrote: post #50

>The room was equipped with cookies, coloring books, bubbles, Play-Doh, calming music, pillows, blankets and a video of frolicking puppies That is something you would expect to find in a young childs room. Is that really the state they are at? And also, what is wrong with a real puppy?

> what is wrong with a real puppy?

Why do you demonize video technology so?

Re: In College and Hiding from Scary Ideas

#83

Post by throwaway9324 » Sun, Mar 22, 2015, 2:40 PM UTC

tunesmith wrote: post #18

littletimmy wrote: post #11

This is the end result of a culture that treats children like dainty chinadolls that are going to shatter at the first fracture. These kids are coddled since they are born to make sure they are "safe" and ferried endlessly from one constructive activity to another so they don't take any risk. Of course it will also be that they need "safe spaces" in college (basically extended high school) whenever they hear somethin…

I've always rolled my eyes at complaints about the "trophy generation" (Adam Carolla had a particularly brain-deadening rant about it), but this article honestly did get me wondering about how people like that would be able to cope with actual professional atmospheres after college. On the other hand, this article is an editorial that doesn't really try to quantify the problem, so maybe "people like that" aren't real…

I don't see how geeks aren't as much of a "trophy generation" as it gets. So I think you know the answer o your question. Yes, there are exception. But the ration between opportunity and chip on their shoulder seems pretty high.

Re: In College and Hiding from Scary Ideas

#84

Post by cryptical » Sun, Mar 22, 2015, 2:41 PM UTC

tomjen3 wrote: post #50

>The room was equipped with cookies, coloring books, bubbles, Play-Doh, calming music, pillows, blankets and a video of frolicking puppies That is something you would expect to find in a young childs room. Is that really the state they are at? And also, what is wrong with a real puppy?

"Owning" a puppy is slavery.

Re: In College and Hiding from Scary Ideas

#85

Post by cheatsheet » Sun, Mar 22, 2015, 2:50 PM UTC

armenarmen wrote: post #35

tunesmith wrote: post #8

It wasn't so long ago that "trigger warning" wasn't even a common phrase. I remember thinking about this in college, though, because I was in a relationship with someone who would get angry at people for expressing input that was too closely related to recent private trauma she had been through. I didn't really understand it because I had always trained myself to judge the producer of input by the intent of the produ…

I've always liked the adage "Offense is taken, not given"

I don't know if people who have not experienced it (or learned how to recognize the pattern of subconscious association) will ever understand it.

It sucks being sucked into your own black hole and I do not believe trauma victims walk into their own black holes willingly. It's a state of mind and it can be learned to be dealt with, but it requires strength.

There are lots of people who live assuming they are in control of every thought and reaction they have. Sometimes this is a rationalization to prove to themselves that they will always have control: it is meant as an affirmation because they fear losing control.

But it denies the experiences, intuitions, and most importantly - the emotional, hormonal, and physically chemical responses of others. We are human. But we are animals too, and as animals we are subject to some 'laws' of our own physicality. People are supposed to learn coping strategies to deal with stress and negative emotions. But trauma victims rarely learn these strategies, and instead learn to pick up on tiny red flags and measure people intuitively on a scale of abuse potential (which is typically heavily biased by correlative relationships).

Do you want to live in a world where everyone is perpetually judged as enemy/non-enemy, but you are constantly told by culture that your intuitions are ridiculous and irrational? Because as a trauma victim, the conditioned response based on experience tells you different even if you are a very smart trauma victim (in which you know that it's based on an outlier from which you can not judge the entire populace). Still, it can be hard to override the physical response to this mechanism - such as hypertension and other indicators of adrenaline release.

Re: In College and Hiding from Scary Ideas

#86

Post by WalterSear » Sun, Mar 22, 2015, 2:56 PM UTC

anon4 wrote: post #61

scintill76 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm reminded of the time I elided repeated profanity from a Fahrenheit 451 passage I quoted in a high-school paper about the book. I found the profanity unnecessary and felt it sort of obscured the point, but I did not realize the irony of censoring "451" until the teacher pointed it out. Well, at least I didn't burn the parts I didn't like, I just editorialized them...

What irony? Fahrenheit 451 isn't about censorship.

Go read it.

Re: In College and Hiding from Scary Ideas

#87

Post by henriquemaia » Sun, Mar 22, 2015, 2:58 PM UTC

tomjen3 wrote: post #50

>The room was equipped with cookies, coloring books, bubbles, Play-Doh, calming music, pillows, blankets and a video of frolicking puppies That is something you would expect to find in a young childs room. Is that really the state they are at? And also, what is wrong with a real puppy?

I think the article's author, with that very detailed description, intended precisely to stress the huge gap between both attitudes in conflict: the child's mentality of those defending the need of a safe space on the one hand and the grown-up mentality of those organizing the debate on the other.

Re: In College and Hiding from Scary Ideas

#88

Post by jqm » Sun, Mar 22, 2015, 2:58 PM UTC

Here is my (completely unsupported) prediction...

People involved in "safe spaces" or passing out fliers against "rape culture" (not rape, that's a crime and a different subject), generally, on average, after college, don't enjoy happy long term rewarding relationships, successful careers nor make a lot money nor contributions to the world.

When I was in college in the early 90's I flirted briefly with the emerging "PC" movement, (many of the principals which I support in theory). I quickly distanced myself when I perceived the pervasive underlying negativity and unhappiness.

Re: In College and Hiding from Scary Ideas

#89

Post by jqm » Sun, Mar 22, 2015, 3:01 PM UTC

tomjen3 wrote: post #50

>The room was equipped with cookies, coloring books, bubbles, Play-Doh, calming music, pillows, blankets and a video of frolicking puppies That is something you would expect to find in a young childs room. Is that really the state they are at? And also, what is wrong with a real puppy?

Some people find dogs threatening...

I personally don't, but I do find rooms for adults filled with play-doh, comfort blankets and rabid third wave feminists a bit threatening.

Re: In College and Hiding from Scary Ideas

#90

Post by JohnBooty » Sun, Mar 22, 2015, 3:02 PM UTC

blumkvist wrote: post #40

ZenoArrow wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I had always trained myself to judge the producer of input by the intent of the producer, rather than by how it affected me" Then I applaud you, as that is a vital skill, rarely understood. So much miscommunication happens because content is easier to follow than intent, yet understanding intent is what really lets you get to know someone.

Great comments, yours and the "parent's". Very eloquently put. I have had problems with people thinking I'm arguing or attacking their ideas, when I am only looking for a debate and a more thorough view of their ideas and line of thinking. This forced me to rethink my communication skills and try to change my approach of conversing. I've found that people who understand those concepts can use them to their advantage…

   > I have had problems with people thinking I'm arguing or
   > attacking their ideas, when I am only looking for a 
   > debate and a more thorough view of their ideas and 
   > line of thinking.

Noble intent, poor execution.

Consider that people in oppressed groups (women, victims of sexual assault, ethnic minorities) have had their legitimacy questioned and denied throughout most if not all of history.

And then along comes you, the noble truth-seeker. Probing and questioning their views. Looking for logical holes. What wonderful subjects these people make for your rhetorical sparring!

The reality is that your intentions are good but from their perspective, chances are that you sound pretty much the same as the last few millenia of people that have shouted them down and questioned their legitimacy. Give them room to express their views, even if you think they're wrong, because this is something they are often denied the right to do.

The solution is simple but not easy. Make sure you're listening and reading a hell of a lot more than you're speaking and writing.

I 100% believe your intentions are good, by the way. Just understand that intent is not magic.