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Angular 2: Built on TypeScript

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Re: Angular 2: Built on TypeScript

#81

Post by [deleted] »

watty wrote: post #54
aikah wrote: post #46

I don't care what people say Angular totally suffers from the second system effect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-system_effect

> The second-system effect is the tendency of small, elegant, and successful systems to have elephantine, feature-laden monstrosities as their successors due to inflated expectations.[1] Angular 2.0 is removing a lot of complexity and "magic" of 1.x. I've moved onto React but I think it's a bit too soon to say Angular 2.0 will be a bloated monstrosity relative to 1.x.

[deleted]

Re: Angular 2: Built on TypeScript

#82

Post by WhitneyLand »

Angular 2 is having a lot of pushback and challenges, but this may be a positive.

First, there have been hard feelings over breaking backward compatibility. To rub salt in the wound the new syntax doesn't seem to buy you much for many basic scenarios. If you are going to push big breaking changes you need to show big benefits that are easy to understand at a glance.

Secondly, the Ember community started small but has been kicking ass for a while now and making many improvements that are compelling to developers. It's a modern framework, but also easier to understand than some competitors like react.

I see the Typescript move as a positive because it shows they are at least trying to do what's right even when using tech from one of the biggest competitors. How this played internally at Google to overcome executive knee-jerk/bureaucracy/pettiness I don't know, but it's a good sign.

The community has clearly spoken, and the future of Angular is now riding on how well they absorb and react to the feedback and advances from competing teams.

Re: Angular 2: Built on TypeScript

#83

Post by [deleted] »

WhitneyLand wrote: post #82

Angular 2 is having a lot of pushback and challenges, but this may be a positive. First, there have been hard feelings over breaking backward compatibility. To rub salt in the wound the new syntax doesn't seem to buy you much for many basic scenarios. If you are going to push big breaking changes you need to show big benefits that are easy to understand at a glance. Secondly, the Ember community started small but has…

[deleted]

Re: Angular 2: Built on TypeScript

#84

Post by Firegarden »

aikah wrote: post #46

I don't care what people say Angular totally suffers from the second system effect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-system_effect

I have specifically avoided angular because I feel like it's a monster in that you are so tied to learning and understanding it's proprietary system. I too have moved directly to react. Can anyone comment on how the skills learned by learning Angular can be applied any where else?

Re: Angular 2: Built on TypeScript

#85

Post by Firegarden »

WhitneyLand wrote: post #82

Angular 2 is having a lot of pushback and challenges, but this may be a positive. First, there have been hard feelings over breaking backward compatibility. To rub salt in the wound the new syntax doesn't seem to buy you much for many basic scenarios. If you are going to push big breaking changes you need to show big benefits that are easy to understand at a glance. Secondly, the Ember community started small but has…

The best part of this announcement is the reminder that Typescript is worth adopting. Sorry "Angular 2" your just not welcome in my leading edge reality.

Re: Angular 2: Built on TypeScript

#86

Post by dominotw »

WhitneyLand wrote: post #82

Angular 2 is having a lot of pushback and challenges, but this may be a positive. First, there have been hard feelings over breaking backward compatibility. To rub salt in the wound the new syntax doesn't seem to buy you much for many basic scenarios. If you are going to push big breaking changes you need to show big benefits that are easy to understand at a glance. Secondly, the Ember community started small but has…

>how well they absorb and react to the feedback and advances from competing teams.

pun intended?

Re: Angular 2: Built on TypeScript

#87

Post by discreteevent »

bdcravens wrote: post #77
WorldWideWayne wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason, I doubt that people here would be complaining about learning a language that resembles the next version of Javascript if it didn't come from Microsoft.

Probably, but that's a legitimate concern. Even with Microsoft's recent open source moves (which I think are pretty awesome), we've had a history of having Microsoft force languages and extensions down our throat in an attempt to usurp the open web and standards: ActiveX, VBScript in IE, .hta's, Silverlight, etc. The counter to that is that TypeScript is Apache-licensed. However, you can't erase history by throwing u…

Ironically your comment could be taken as a classic example of the kind of FUD Microsoft used to spread. You give examples from the past that, you admit, clearly don't apply. You talk about "feels less open" when it is factually not. You speculate on others (who are they?) being pushed past a tipping point. Doubt, doubt, doubt and fear, fear, fear when in fact there's nothing you can point to in reality to back it up.

Re: Angular 2: Built on TypeScript

#88

Post by ratbeard »

ahoge wrote: post #78
ratbeard wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine they've improved the runtime size since that stack overflow post was posted a few years ago. However I've never used dart and just tried it out using a basic html sample from the tutorial page and I see: 264 Mar 5 12:21 a.dart 237K Mar 5 12:21 a.js 101K Mar 5 12:22 a.min.js It was also slow to compile, 6 secs. Anything I'm missing? https://gist.github.com/ratbeard/70902d6347ad448de0a4

If you add gzip compression, it's still smaller than doing the same thing with jQuery. "dart:html" provides an idiomatic DOM API where all list-like things are actually Lists, events are streams, Futures instead of callbacks, and so forth. It's pretty nice to use, but it's also one of the bulkier libraries. Also note that you could now add a thousand lines of code and the file size wouldn't increase much. You already…

Ah, that makes sense re:same size as if you added jquery, and the API abstractions do sound better.

Though as a counterpoint (and relevant to angular 2 :) I read they're going to just use the raw dom api's instead of a jquery/jquery-lite abstraction layer as the dom api's don't need the smoothing over in modern browsers like they used to.

Re: Angular 2: Built on TypeScript

#89

Post by k_bx »

the_gipsy wrote: post #47

Yay! I have tested TypeScript in hobby projects with a very positive experience. I have actually used typescript together with angular once. I was very disappointed when angular announced that they were going to make some kind of fork, for the runtime annotations they needed, instead of working together.

Until they tret null values as a separate type, I'm with Facebook Flow.

Re: Angular 2: Built on TypeScript

#90

Post by noobhater1000 »

To be honest I feel like learning JSX is the Achilles heel to using ReactJS. Now Angular is forcing you to learn TypeScript? What's next, Polymer will make you learn Coffeescript?

I like React except for JSX, since React seems to be headed in the all JSX direction I jumped ship to Polymer.

I hate the idea of having to learn a proprietary language that boils down to straight JavaScript. I hate the extra compile, I hate the lack of dubugging support. Most of all, I hate the fragmented documentation when a project has straight JavaScript examples and other examples using some abstraction.

Why is the web world doing this?

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