Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Show me the salary!

blog.jobbox.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 191 posts

Re: Show me the salary!

#81

Post by Mister_Snuggles »

protonfish wrote: post #35
Mister_Snuggles wrote: post #12

I've got a handful of general rules around salary that tell me not to apply for certain jobs: - I don't apply to jobs that don't list a salary range. This is a red flag that tells me that the employer doesn't have the budget to pay market rates and that applying and interviewing could be a colossal waste of time for both of us. I get that the employer may not be willing to pay what I want based on my experience, etc,…

That's reasonable, but I've found that I am no longer put off by open-ended contracts. I found many companies doing this because they know their hiring practices aren't good enough to weed out posers. If you are good at your job, you have little to worry about. Besides, I've lost more jobs that were "permanent" than contract. Employer commitment is a fairy tale from the days of yore.

This is what a probation period is for. I have no issue applying to a job that is "Permanent with XX month probation period".

Re: Show me the salary!

#82

Post by MagicWishMonkey »

fukupayme2 wrote: post #67
MagicWishMonkey wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's pretty ridiculous. I guess I don't feel bad about being less than honest when asked by a potential employer about my current salary. It's really none of their business.

It can get worse - I know of people who have been asked by the IB to prove their current salary/bonus levels, to avoid inflation or overstated earnings. They do also verify via the P45 as well. Best bet is to join one, if you have to, from a contractor route. Then you have an advantage, as they know you are most likely on a higher rate and are not willing to muck around with the usual HR demands.

So a potential employer can verify your current salary through the government? That's terrible. I don't think employers have that ability here in the states, but I could be wrong.

Re: Show me the salary!

#83

Post by Mister_Snuggles »

jchendy wrote: post #56
Mister_Snuggles wrote: post #12

I've got a handful of general rules around salary that tell me not to apply for certain jobs: - I don't apply to jobs that don't list a salary range. This is a red flag that tells me that the employer doesn't have the budget to pay market rates and that applying and interviewing could be a colossal waste of time for both of us. I get that the employer may not be willing to pay what I want based on my experience, etc,…

> I don't apply to jobs that don't list a salary range. This is a red flag that tells me that the employer doesn't have the budget to pay market rates Do you only work for startups? Most major tech companies don't list salary ranges, and Google, Facebook, etc obviously have the money to pay what people are worth.

I've always worked outside of technology companies. It seems to be the norm, at least with the organizations I've applied to, to list a salary range.

Re: Show me the salary!

#84

Post by sukilot »

Silhouette wrote: post #65
Mister_Snuggles wrote: post #12

I've got a handful of general rules around salary that tell me not to apply for certain jobs: - I don't apply to jobs that don't list a salary range. This is a red flag that tells me that the employer doesn't have the budget to pay market rates and that applying and interviewing could be a colossal waste of time for both of us. I get that the employer may not be willing to pay what I want based on my experience, etc,…

I don't apply to jobs that don't list a salary range. This is a red flag that tells me that the employer doesn't have the budget to pay market rates and that applying and interviewing could be a colossal waste of time for both of us. This one also has an evil sibling: you say something meaningless like "Salary: Competitive" and then when an applicant turns up to interview, you ask them what they're currently on. I se…

You tell them the number you want, and you round waaaay up, of you reply "Confidential", or "X-to-Y, variable".

I had a hiring manager push me hard for this info at one job. I ended up taking the job (maybe lower pay than I could have gotten) and he turned out to be one of the worst people to teamwork with at the company.

Re: Show me the salary!

#85

Post by Mister_Snuggles »

hibikir wrote: post #53
Mister_Snuggles wrote: post #12

I've got a handful of general rules around salary that tell me not to apply for certain jobs: - I don't apply to jobs that don't list a salary range. This is a red flag that tells me that the employer doesn't have the budget to pay market rates and that applying and interviewing could be a colossal waste of time for both of us. I get that the employer may not be willing to pay what I want based on my experience, etc,…

temp work with the possibility of extension is very common around here for both ends of the skill spectrum. The lower end is hard to evaluate, so companies give themselves an out that is not called a layoff. On the high end, accounting comes into play: Consulting fits a different bucket than full time employees, so often it's much easier to hire a consultant and pay him well than to hire the same person full time. I…

Unfortunately, this is very true. I don't understand why it's considered "cheaper" to pay more money to a consultant than the salary+overhead of a regular employee. I get that they're different parts of the budget, but ultimately it's still money spent by the organization.

Re: Show me the salary!

#86

Post by amelius »

MagicWishMonkey wrote: post #7
amelius wrote: post #5

I wonder what happens if test-engineer Bob finds out that there is a new job-opening for a test-engineer in his company, with a salary that is significantly higher than his own current salary.

He does what I did in the same situation, spend 5 minutes finding a new job before turning in his 2 week notice. I don't do the "lets re-negotiate my salary" bit, it's up to my employer to keep me at or above market rate for my skills, I shouldn't have to ask for it.

Ok, with the strategy of employers to be reluctant with publishing salary info, how do you currently determine your market rate?

And given the fact that this market rate is not a clearly defined value (also thanks to employers' reluctance), don't you think it is necessary to at least negotiate with your current employer if you believe you're being paid below par?

Re: Show me the salary!

#87

Post by hippich »

I spent quite a bunch of time on interviews with employers who promised to pay above market salary to end up with an offer 30% less than i am making.

Put another way - salary is big item in job description for me - amount employer ready to pay too often correlates with problems/technologies/colleagues/innovations i am going to work with.

So naturally first question I always ask recruiter - how much. And naturally most of them shy away from answering it straight.

As a result I created job form[1] and, unless it is someone's recommendation, or i had previous relationships with recruiter, I send all of them to this form to fill it first.

[1] https://e.l1t3.com/pavelkaroukin

Re: Show me the salary!

#88

Post by sukilot »

pixelcort wrote: post #51

Would a solution to Yao's Millionaires' problem help? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yao%27s_Millionaires%27_Probl... The candidate puts in the minimum they're willing to take into one side of the solution, and the employer puts in the maximum. Both then securely find out if the minimum is less than the maximum, without revealing the two numbers to each other. The socialist millionaire solution is used in OTR, but th…

As a bonus, anybody who can implement the algorithm is a strong hire.

Re: Show me the salary!

#89

Post by WhitneyLand »

crdoconnor wrote: post #36
WhitneyLand wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like an awe shucks kind of answer, if that were truly the primary concern you could post the highest and lowest salaries you hire at and explain the range. I do agree with your policy but for different reasons. For one I haven't seen a scalable way to roll out total salary transparency with a net gain in company psychology. The problems seem to outweigh the benefits, although I think it may be possible and just…

>I haven't seen a scalable way to roll out total salary transparency with a net gain in company psychology #1 Make sure everybody is paid as much as they deserve as far as you can tell. #2 Roll out total salary transparency. Not being "scalable" sounds like another way of saying "we don't want to do #1, it sounds expensive. Secrecy is cheaper.".

This implies some sort of unfairness is being hidden, which should be the easy part of the problem.

The hard part is that equitable salaries do not mean equal salaries. If you there are large differences based completely on merit it's very difficult to make someone feel good about being lower than the person sitting next to them, even if it's objectively fair.

Re: Show me the salary!

#90

Post by mattmanser »

MagicWishMonkey wrote: post #82
fukupayme2 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can get worse - I know of people who have been asked by the IB to prove their current salary/bonus levels, to avoid inflation or overstated earnings. They do also verify via the P45 as well. Best bet is to join one, if you have to, from a contractor route. Then you have an advantage, as they know you are most likely on a higher rate and are not willing to muck around with the usual HR demands.

So a potential employer can verify your current salary through the government? That's terrible. I don't think employers have that ability here in the states, but I could be wrong.

It's a small downside to the massive upside that in the UK most people don't have to do their own taxes, their employers and the government do it all for them.

Hence the employers need to know how much you've earnt and how much PAYE tax you've paid so far this tax year (via a form called a P45).

I guess you could get round it by claiming you had unpaid leave, or you'd recently been given a pay rise, or you'd been offered the figure by your previous company to stay.

Post reply on HN