I'm a Perl 6 core developer (compiler, test suite, docs, design documents, infrastructure). Ask me anything :-)
How flexible is the subset type functionality in Perl 6?
Perl 6 developers will attempt to make a Version 1.0 release by Christmas 2015
81–90 of 148 posts
Re: Perl 6 developers will attempt to make a Version 1.0 release by Christmas 2015
#82I'm a Perl 6 core developer (compiler, test suite, docs, design documents, infrastructure). Ask me anything :-)
Some of the presentations I've seen make it look like MoarVM does some kind of AST specialisation before it gets to the JIT. Is there any documentation of how that works?
Not that I'm aware of, sorry.
Some of things it does:
* type specialization. It looks at repeated executions of a piece of code, and if the type of a variable or parameter is stable, it assumes it'll be always that way, and specializes the code for that (for example, always picks a method from the same class). And of course it inserts a guard clause to ensure that if the type should change, it takes the slow (but correct) path
* inlining
* container removal. In Perl 6, things generally become mutable by being inside a container (think pointer), and if the specializer finds cases where that's not needed, it generates better code for them
* reachability analysis and elimination of allocations are being worked on, iirc.
Re: Perl 6 developers will attempt to make a Version 1.0 release by Christmas 2015
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
Forgive me for this, but why is it still called Perl 6? I've been a professional Perl developer for a long time, and I've followed Perl 6 since the first announcements. There is some impressive and really interesting work going on there, but from my perspective it seems to be a new language rather than a new version of Perl. I fully support the development of Perl 6, but I really wish the name would change to somethi…
> I've been a professional Perl developer for a long time, and I've followed Perl 6 since the first announcements. There is some impressive and really interesting work going on there, but from my perspective it seems to be a new language rather than a new version of Perl. It's both, really. If you use it (and after a while of getting used it), it just feels like perl. > I fully support the development of Perl 6, but…
But that's too late now....
Come now; that was the excuse given five and ten years ago.
the "Perl" brand is still very strong
Some would argue (including the post to which you're replying) that the brand is much less so, thanks to the very line of thinking you're defending.
Re: Perl 6 developers will attempt to make a Version 1.0 release by Christmas 2015
#84I'm a Perl 6 core developer (compiler, test suite, docs, design documents, infrastructure). Ask me anything :-)
How flexible is the subset type functionality in Perl 6?
It allows arbitrary code to define the subset. So it's very flexible, but it also means that compiler usually can't be clever about subsets. We can't solve the Halting problem for you.
Re: Perl 6 developers will attempt to make a Version 1.0 release by Christmas 2015
#85I'm a Perl 6 core developer (compiler, test suite, docs, design documents, infrastructure). Ask me anything :-)
I don't see anywhere where it says the project is getting behind MoarVM, and this will be the official runtime that ships. Is this in fact the case?
Most everybody on the #perl6 IRC channel, the central part of the Perl 6 community, is preferring the MoarVM backend. It's only a matter of time and policy until it becomes more "official" in one way or another than the other backends.
Re: Perl 6 developers will attempt to make a Version 1.0 release by Christmas 2015
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some of the presentations I've seen make it look like MoarVM does some kind of AST specialisation before it gets to the JIT. Is there any documentation of how that works?
Not that I'm aware of, sorry. Some of things it does: * type specialization. It looks at repeated executions of a piece of code, and if the type of a variable or parameter is stable, it assumes it'll be always that way, and specializes the code for that (for example, always picks a method from the same class). And of course it inserts a guard clause to ensure that if the type should change, it takes the slow (but cor…
Do you know who it might be best to talk to about the AST/bytecode specialisation? I work on a compiler with AST specialisations and I'm interested in their approach.
Re: Perl 6 developers will attempt to make a Version 1.0 release by Christmas 2015
#87If you want to have an idea of what makes Perl 6 compelling, check these slides that were submitted a few days ago, "Perl 6 for Mere Mortals" (which is also another talk at FOSDEM): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8953368 I hate to repeat a comment of mine, but for the sake of emphasizing just how different Perl 6 is, here's a version of Fibonacci in Perl 6: subset NonNegativeInt of Int where * >= 0; proto fib (…
Why would I learn this rather than Haskell?
Coming from other dynamic and mostly OO/imperative languages, Perl 6 is evolution, and Haskell is revolution.
If you think that you need a revolution to get to a desirable state, Haskell is for you. If you prefer not to have to re-wire your brain, give Perl 6 a shot.
Or, of course, do both :-)
Re: Perl 6 developers will attempt to make a Version 1.0 release by Christmas 2015
#88Yes, Virgina, there really is a Santa Claus.
Re: Perl 6 developers will attempt to make a Version 1.0 release by Christmas 2015
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
Forgive me for this, but why is it still called Perl 6? I've been a professional Perl developer for a long time, and I've followed Perl 6 since the first announcements. There is some impressive and really interesting work going on there, but from my perspective it seems to be a new language rather than a new version of Perl. I fully support the development of Perl 6, but I really wish the name would change to somethi…
> I've been a professional Perl developer for a long time, and I've followed Perl 6 since the first announcements. There is some impressive and really interesting work going on there, but from my perspective it seems to be a new language rather than a new version of Perl. It's both, really. If you use it (and after a while of getting used it), it just feels like perl. > I fully support the development of Perl 6, but…
> And the "Perl" brand is still very strong, so we are loath to give it up.
That is great for you as a Perl 6 developer that gets extra attention for the new language by leveraging the Perl brand, but it is absolutely awful for people in the Perl 5 community. Perl 6 gets free press, but Perl 5 gets mocked and public opinion turns even further against it.
> Finally, Perl 5 has many unsolved problems that will hinder its evolution in the upcoming decades. Once Perl 6 has become as fast and mature as Perl 5 is now, we want to provide the future that's closed to Perl 5.
I know Perl 5 isn't perfect, but no languages are. You refer to "unsolved problems" and while I'm sure there are from your perspective, from mine as someone who writes large Perl 5 applications, there are no great issues. I can do everything I need to already, and I can do it really well. I don't need Perl 6, and I won't even consider it until it has a proven track record.
For most people to make the switch, Perl 6 won't need to prove itself as being just better than Perl 5, but it will need to prove itself as the right choice in the full market of languages out there. For at least a few years, and likely many more, Perl 5 will still be the right choice for a lot of work, and Perl 6 will do nothing but confuse people and cause public opinion about Perl and with it Perl 5's market share to sink even further.
Re: Perl 6 developers will attempt to make a Version 1.0 release by Christmas 2015
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not that I'm aware of, sorry. Some of things it does: * type specialization. It looks at repeated executions of a piece of code, and if the type of a variable or parameter is stable, it assumes it'll be always that way, and specializes the code for that (for example, always picks a method from the same class). And of course it inserts a guard clause to ensure that if the type should change, it takes the slow (but cor…
Do you know who it might be best to talk to about the AST/bytecode specialisation? I work on a compiler with AST specialisations and I'm interested in their approach.
Check out #moarvm on irc.freenode.net.