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Tuxedo.js – A Framework Built on React and Flux

tuxedojs.org

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Re: Tuxedo.js – A Framework Built on React and Flux

#81

Post by nilliams »

girvo wrote: post #66
nilliams wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, I'm beginning to lose patience repeating the frankly blinding-obvious-at-this-point-argument you just had to make, but I'm glad others like yourself haven't. The 'don't use frameworks, use libraries' argument is naive, and just does not hold up in the real world of teams trying to build things.

And I have found the "you're just writing your own framework" point needlessly repeated over and over, despite having never run into it in practice. Choosing a large framework does not insulate you from the concerns of the grandparent. You still must come up with a style guide, and a way of using the tools. The win is not obvious, imo.

The style guide is surely longer when using a toolset with fewer conventions?

If I'm using Backbone over Ember, my style guide has to cover things that would be covered by Ember's own docs, for example how to compose views, how to do nested routing, how to represent computed properties ...

Your longer style guide is defining code patterns for those use-cases. Your longer style guide is a framework, just more verbose because you aren't actually abstracting away those patterns.

Re: Tuxedo.js – A Framework Built on React and Flux

#83

Post by tzara »

thoman23 wrote: post #75
andybak wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My only issue with 'isomorphism' it it forces me to use javascript on the server. As much as javascript isn't the worst language in the world, I'll never be happy with to live in a world where it's the only language.

Thank you! I will never understand this push towards "isomorphism". Why do you want to use more javascript? I use javascript because I have to, not because I want to. I love being able to work in the language of my choice on the server. Furthermore, I'm not convinced it's a good thing to blur the lines between client and server. Or in other words, I think it's a good thing for the developer to be thinking about the d…

I will never understand this push towards "isomorphism"

Keep it DRY. Write once, run everywhere. Bearing in mind you have to write the application once in Javascript, it's a counter-proposal to "being able to work in the language of my choice on the server", which is to use the 1 version.

Re: Tuxedo.js – A Framework Built on React and Flux

#84

Post by agmcleod »

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #54
woah wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better than some of the stagnant languages out there. If people don't want to try any of these new frameworks, they should just keep using what they were using before. Strange to complain about there being too much enthusiasm and innovation in a community.

Actually, those 'stagnant' languages are powering your OS, your browser, the backend server, etc. They've had millions of dollars invested into them for development, implementation, and optimization. Doesn't mean they're good, but more that they're [usually] good enough that you can completely ignore them. Talk about abstraction! Anyway, lots of frameworks coming out != progress. Similarly, lack of new frameworks !=…

Well if nothing is changing with the language, or no new frameworks, then that does mean stagnation. Is it a bad thing? Of course not. Such stable languages and tools are great to have.

Likewise I do think the sleuth of frameworks means progress. Not always good progress, but we will continue to learn and improve things going forward as these experiments succeed or fail.

Re: Tuxedo.js – A Framework Built on React and Flux

#85

Post by jdlshore »

riobard wrote: post #82
riobard wrote: post #22

Seriously? Your solution to showing syntax highlighted code snippets is images???

Downvoters, I'd like to hear your arguments of why my complaint is invalid.

It's not the complaint itself, it's that it's rude, lazy, and off-topic.

Re: Tuxedo.js – A Framework Built on React and Flux

#86

Post by nogridbag »

morley wrote: post #52
norswap wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frameworks are most often a bad idea. Use libraries instead. Sometimes they are useful though. For instance, they make sense when routing. But in those cases, they should more like libraries as well: more lightweight. Something like Express or Koa.js but more lightweight.

> Frameworks are most often a bad idea. Use libraries instead. People say this a lot, and it makes me wonder if they've ever worked on a team working on the same codebase. And if they do, what secret sauce they're drinking to not go insane. In my experience, when people on a team use libraries at their whim, the coding styles diverge wildly from feature to feature. One person decides they're going to write all their…

I'm moving towards the library approach for some toy projects for both client and server.

There is no perfect framework and by choosing one you're usually stuck with its warts for the long haul. I usually find that I'm bending my code to fit into the framework conventions that I don't necessarily agree with.

With ExtJS for example, the framework conventions dictate your project should be organized into folders like this:

  controllers/
  models/
  views/
...whereas I prefer controllers, models, and views, which are coupled, to be located in the same folder and models which are intended to be shared to be explicitly in a shared folder.

Another example (still ExtJS!) is that I never agreed with ExtJS's MVC implementation - where its controllers were global for all instances of a view. It took Sencha several years before they fixed this by adding "ViewControllers" in ExtJS 5.

If ExtJS was not an all-encompassing framework I would have liked to use its UI components with a different MVC library (or simply vanilla JS) organized into my preferred project structure. I suppose it's still possible to do this but with frameworks you tend to not want to deviate too much from the framework conventions or things start to go wrong.

Re: Tuxedo.js – A Framework Built on React and Flux

#87

Post by riobard »

jdlshore wrote: post #85
riobard wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Downvoters, I'd like to hear your arguments of why my complaint is invalid.

It's not the complaint itself, it's that it's rude, lazy, and off-topic.

It was rude??? Jeez you guys are really spoiled kids. Let me know when you are dealing with real customers down the way and how they will bitch about stuff.

What's even the point of criticizing me being "lazy"? How am I supposed to complain the valid point without being "lazy"? Write a tutorial on using JavaScript syntax highlighting library? That might be OK elsewhere, but this is Hacker News and they are demoing code snippets. They are supposed to know this will cause serious usability issues.

And if this complaint is off-topic, I'm not sure what else we should talk about here on HN.

Re: Tuxedo.js – A Framework Built on React and Flux

#88

Post by Lazare »

goatslacker wrote: post #31
bringking wrote: post #6

Does Tuxedo have a plan for Isomorphic applications? I have been following the Yahoo fluxible project since it provides nice abstractions, but was designed for isomorphic apps out of the box.

You should check out alt[1] and iso[2] which is isomorphic out of the box and it's pure flux. There are examples in both repos. [1] https://github.com/goatslacker/alt [2] https://github.com/goatslacker/iso

Coincidentally, I was just searching for a good Flux implementation for my first flux-style app, and something about alt really looks good. I think I'll give it a whirl. :)

Re: Tuxedo.js – A Framework Built on React and Flux

#89

Post by woah »

agmcleod wrote: post #84
mattgreenrocks wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, those 'stagnant' languages are powering your OS, your browser, the backend server, etc. They've had millions of dollars invested into them for development, implementation, and optimization. Doesn't mean they're good, but more that they're [usually] good enough that you can completely ignore them. Talk about abstraction! Anyway, lots of frameworks coming out != progress. Similarly, lack of new frameworks !=…

Well if nothing is changing with the language, or no new frameworks, then that does mean stagnation. Is it a bad thing? Of course not. Such stable languages and tools are great to have. Likewise I do think the sleuth of frameworks means progress. Not always good progress, but we will continue to learn and improve things going forward as these experiments succeed or fail.

Yea, I'm not saying that the churn is a good thing. But I do think that in 5 years, JS/HTML/CSS will be a truly great interface toolkit because of all the ideas that are being tested now. It is kind of annoying at the moment.

Re: Tuxedo.js – A Framework Built on React and Flux

#90

Post by woah »

agmcleod wrote: post #84
mattgreenrocks wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, those 'stagnant' languages are powering your OS, your browser, the backend server, etc. They've had millions of dollars invested into them for development, implementation, and optimization. Doesn't mean they're good, but more that they're [usually] good enough that you can completely ignore them. Talk about abstraction! Anyway, lots of frameworks coming out != progress. Similarly, lack of new frameworks !=…

Well if nothing is changing with the language, or no new frameworks, then that does mean stagnation. Is it a bad thing? Of course not. Such stable languages and tools are great to have. Likewise I do think the sleuth of frameworks means progress. Not always good progress, but we will continue to learn and improve things going forward as these experiments succeed or fail.

Yea, I'm not saying that the churn is a good thing. But I do think that in 5 years, JS/HTML/CSS will be a truly great interface toolkit because of all the ideas that are being tested now. It is kind of annoying at the moment.
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