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Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

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Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#81

Post by normloman »

arethuza wrote: post #47
kyleashipley wrote: post #24

I'll play contrarian for a moment: the most productive office I've ever worked in was an open office layout. What worked for us: * Separate clusters by function / noise level -- We didn't put sales people and developers next to one another. People who spent all day on the phone were near other people who spent all day on the phone. * Keep clusters small -- We had 4 person "pods" of desks for most of our early lifecyc…

I changed jobs fairly recently and the new office has "Busylights" on all PCs - which works brilliantly as its linked to IM/calendar/VoIP status. I can look round and see exactly whether it's OK to approach people.... http://www.busylight.com/ [NB I wouldn't mind one on a hat I could wear at home!].

I would just put mine on all the time so nobody bothered me.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#82

Post by nilkn »

tjdetwiler wrote: post #56
nilkn wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus an approximately 0% chance of hiring anybody who currently has their own private office, unless you have something really special to offer (considerably above-market compensation or prestige or a position on a remarkably interesting project).

I went from private office to open floor plan when I switched jobs last. It was towards the bottom of things I cared about when I was considering the move. Private offices are definitely nice, but I also enjoy the positives of an open office

I could see going from a private office to, say, a well-designed cubicle, but I definitely think for a lot of folks the transition to an open floor plan could be incredibly disruptive.

I suppose it depends on the personality. Generally, though, with private offices, well-designed communal areas, and huddle rooms (plus larger conference rooms), it's hard to see how an open floor plan has any advantages other than supposed cost cutting. The crux of the issue, I think, is that it requires a rather special type of personality to be really productive in a more chaotic open floor plan, whereas it requires a much less special type of personality to be really productive when one has the option of retiring to an office.

Really, what's most important to me is that one has the option of retiring to a private space when the extra concentration is needed. If one were to sit in an open space by default, but always was guaranteed a small private space when needed, I wouldn't see many issues. But I've seen very few open office plans that can legitimately offer that sort of dynamic. Headphones do not constitute a private space -- they're more of a bandaid.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#83

Post by wuliwong »

equalarrow wrote: post #73
trose wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This needs to be said more. I absolutely love being in an open office layout because it allows for easy collaboration as well as the occasional spontaneous fun interruption. People seem to get hung up on the interruptions as if they lose tons and tons of productivity. I just haven't experienced issues like that personally. I find that the interruptions are a welcome break to the monotony of staring at code for 8 hour…

Staring at code 8 hours a day.. Maybe that's the problem. As someone who's had to run programming groups and do the programming work, I will say open floor plans are the worst idea ever. If you need/want to get into the zone on a project and actually make progress, the open floor plan will keep you from doing that as much as possible. For breaks, the last thing I would be doing is going on facebook or checking email…

You sound like a really angry person. What do you do on your breaks? And you really think checking emails is useless? Honestly, if the OP is checking his emails on his breaks, he actually sounds like he's being productive. OP also clearly said he looked at cat gifs to clear his head. If you cannot understand the need for a programmer to clear their head from time to time, then you are not a programmer and if you did manage programmers, you were awful at it.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#84

Post by normloman »

badmadrad wrote: post #13

Open offices are type A/extroverted personality wet dreams. Everybody they need is within earshot and they can see EVERYTHING so they can properly control everything. However for introverts, people with noise sensitivity, or people with ADD this is an absolute nightmare. I find a lot of engineers tend to be either introverts or have some type of manageable ADD so it doesn't surprise me that many people would be negat…

I'm one of those type A people. And no, open office plans still suck.

Here's why bosses like them:

1. They're cheap. 2. Other businesses are doing it.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#85

Post by michaelfeathers »

ryan90 wrote: post #75

This article is a classic case of "link journalism". Not a single study she linked to is conclusive and applicable to all situations. The studies merely suggest that there may be drawbacks to open offices. Additionally, she mentions the camaraderie among teammates masking lost productivity. Who's to say that this doesn't contribute to the overall well being of the office? Even if it does mean some near-term productiv…

Yes, it is link journalism. I wish I could find another article on this that was on HN about a year ago. The takeaway was that closed and open offices each have their benefits and liabilities, and that the ideal is to have open areas with something like the study carrels in libraries that people can retreat to. I've never seen that in practice, but I'd love to try it out.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#86

Post by JoeAltmaier »

ryan90 wrote: post #75

This article is a classic case of "link journalism". Not a single study she linked to is conclusive and applicable to all situations. The studies merely suggest that there may be drawbacks to open offices. Additionally, she mentions the camaraderie among teammates masking lost productivity. Who's to say that this doesn't contribute to the overall well being of the office? Even if it does mean some near-term productiv…

"Near-term productivity"? What can that mean? If you are in an open office all day, every day, the it means "all productivity" is lost.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#87

Post by JoeAltmaier »

chrisbennet wrote: post #30

At some point, open-offices will be the only thing that the majority of software developers know. If you've never experienced the productivity that comes from being able to think without interruption, you won't know what you are missing. At that point, the trend will probably be irreversible. For me personally, this trend isn't all bad: When I work someplace with this setup it's kind of nice to "hang out with my frie…

Work at home. Offices of programmers are going to diminish and disappear.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#88

Post by chrisbennet »

dkhenry wrote: post #61

I think googles own Eric Schmidt had the best response to this. If open office's were bad for buisness or destroying the workspace the free market would bear that out. There are tangable benefits which is why companies move towards it. I understand some people hate it, but most don't so why do we keep getting the same articles every few months saying the same thing. We get it _you_ don't like the open office space ot…

That's a good point.

Perhaps most companies don't have tasks that are hard enough to really require optimum concentration?

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#89

Post by wuliwong »

trose wrote: post #44
kyleashipley wrote: post #24

I'll play contrarian for a moment: the most productive office I've ever worked in was an open office layout. What worked for us: * Separate clusters by function / noise level -- We didn't put sales people and developers next to one another. People who spent all day on the phone were near other people who spent all day on the phone. * Keep clusters small -- We had 4 person "pods" of desks for most of our early lifecyc…

This needs to be said more. I absolutely love being in an open office layout because it allows for easy collaboration as well as the occasional spontaneous fun interruption. People seem to get hung up on the interruptions as if they lose tons and tons of productivity. I just haven't experienced issues like that personally. I find that the interruptions are a welcome break to the monotony of staring at code for 8 hour…

Whoever down-voted your comment should have that privilege revoked. trose's comment was completely on topic and well thought out. Down-voting is not to be used when you simply disagree.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#90

Post by sousousou »

For me, it really comes down to energy.

It takes me lots of energy to ignore something. Like someone walking behind my computer monitor. Like someone having a loud unrelated conversation next to me. Like being conscious of my appearance and behavior (out of respect for others). And it takes energy to solve problems and write great code.

I simply can't do it all every day, day in and day out. Monday is fine. I can work long hours on Monday in the office, getting lots of good work done. But on Tuesday, I am irritable and can't focus as well. By Wednesday, I'm useless. If I go into the office, I come home exhausted, unable to even speak.

Fortunately I can work from home, but it's a heartbreaking trade. It's not as much fun (or productive) to collaborate over the internet as it is in person. I am definitely not going to accidentally end up going out to lunch or coffee with a new friend. Etc.

Comments to the tune of "suck it up", "wear headphones", are nothing new to the ears of introverts. We've been dealing with this _extroverted culture_ all our lives. Extroverts thrive on stimulation. Introverts drown in it.

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