Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Yehuda Katz and Steve Klabnik Are Joining the Rust Core Team

blog.rust-lang.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 135 posts

Re: Yehuda Katz and Steve Klabnik Are Joining the Rust Core Team

#81

Post by imanaccount247 »

bjz_ wrote: post #75
imanaccount247 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should know it at least a tiny bit though, or else you lump perfectly "idiomatic" functions in with low level functions that aren't often used and pretend they're a problem. How is a indexing an array without a bounds check somehow counter to lazy evaluation or functional programming? It is the exact same thing as indexing it normally, just without checking the length.

The point is that is unsafe. You don't need to do that in idiomatic Rust code, because the bounds-check-free indexing is encapsulated inside the iterator library. So to re-frame it: fast, idiomatic Rust code is safer and easier to write than fast, idiomatic Haskell code.

>The point is that is unsafe

No, the point was that it is "far from idiomatic". Did you read the post I was replying to?

Re: Yehuda Katz and Steve Klabnik Are Joining the Rust Core Team

#82

Post by cnp »

dchuk wrote: post #55
wycats wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did my first real coding in around 2005, and quickly got interested in both jQuery and Rails. Really good timing in retrospect!

Considering you've been coding less than a decade, can you comment on what you think the biggest factor was that lead you to developing such a high level of mastery of solid coding principles? Books, mentoring, reading framework and library code thoroughly?

Wow, you've asked just the question i've been wondering ever since I read that date. Very curious, because it seems like there's been a reliably intuitive focus since the very beginning which generally takes years to develop.

Re: Yehuda Katz and Steve Klabnik Are Joining the Rust Core Team

#83

Post by deathtrader666 »

wycats wrote: post #52
prezjordan wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe Yehuda only started coding in 2006? Maybe 2008?

I did my first real coding in around 2005, and quickly got interested in both jQuery and Rails. Really good timing in retrospect!

What do you recommend someone do / read / learn if he wants to follow on your path?

Re: Yehuda Katz and Steve Klabnik Are Joining the Rust Core Team

#84

Post by getsat »

yesimahuman wrote: post #46

Nice! As a reluctant Go developer, I look at rust with envy and excitement. I am very eager to see this project progress and it seems like they've got some great people on it.

I share your envy and excitement.

I'm looking forward to dumping Go in favor of Rust once it's competitive in terms of libraries/stdlib. I've been building some big stuff in Go recently (mostly around financial market simulation) and the language shortcomings have hurt a lot. I've been using Go since January 2013 as my primary language, but everything I've seen of and tried with Rust is amazing.

Re: Yehuda Katz and Steve Klabnik Are Joining the Rust Core Team

#85

Post by balloot »

wycats wrote: post #40
sergiotapia wrote: post #35

How will this affect Yehuda's involvement with Ember? I'm kinda scared he will jump ship and leave it in the air. :/

Most definitely not. Ember (and its ecosystem) and Rust are the two open source projects that are currently consuming most of my time. I have easily spent as much time on the planning for Ember 2.0, HTMLBars, and Service Side Rendering as I have on Cargo and Rust over the past six months or so. Also, both Ember and Rust are critical for my business (Skylight), and keeping them both strong and effective are key to my…

Good to hear - building a project on Ember now and it (Ember) is an absolute joy to work with. Keep it going!

Re: Yehuda Katz and Steve Klabnik Are Joining the Rust Core Team

#86

Post by wycats »

cnp wrote: post #82
dchuk wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering you've been coding less than a decade, can you comment on what you think the biggest factor was that lead you to developing such a high level of mastery of solid coding principles? Books, mentoring, reading framework and library code thoroughly?

Wow, you've asked just the question i've been wondering ever since I read that date. Very curious, because it seems like there's been a reliably intuitive focus since the very beginning which generally takes years to develop.

I think the best I can do here is my usual answer: take some time every week to work on a problem that is a little bit harder than what you already know how to do. It requires discipline, and it's hard, but it reliably results in levelling up.

It also helps with humility: if you're constantly working on things that are too hard for you to do, it's hard to build up an unhealthy belief in your own abilities. And humility will keep you open to unexpected learnings from collaborators and people working on related things.

Re: Yehuda Katz and Steve Klabnik Are Joining the Rust Core Team

#87

Post by imanaccount247 »

bjz_ wrote: post #74
imanaccount247 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I feel like in the case of some it's just parroting someone elses argument. It usually is. The reality is that like most memes like this, there's a grain of truth at the center, but most of the people repeating it don't know where the truth ends and the exaggeration begins. Regex-dna is using low level ByteString operations to squeeze out a bit of extra performance. This makes it quite a bit longer and would rarely…

Ok, so perhaps I grant you the fact that unsafe indexing is idiomatic. The Rust code is still safer and more robust against buffer overflows in the long term. Also, isn't regex-dna using libpcre? That's a C library, no? Rust's regex library is pure Rust, with no unsafe code. I love Haskell, but I still don't think it occupies the same space as Rust.

>Also, isn't regex-dna using libpcre?

It is in virtually every language on the shootout. That's one of the reasons the shootout is so terrible. A regex benchmark doesn't tell you much of anything unless the task itself is to write the regex engine.

>I love Haskell, but I still don't think it occupies the same space as Rust.

Neither do I. I am simply correcting this weird meme that "haskell is really slow and the shootout shows you have to write insane code to be fast" when the whole point of the shootout is to write the fastest code you can, the haskell code is pretty ordinary and still significantly better than most other languages, and an "idiomatic" version is not 10 times slower, it is 10% slower.

Re: Yehuda Katz and Steve Klabnik Are Joining the Rust Core Team

#88

Post by blueside »

wycats wrote: post #86
cnp wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, you've asked just the question i've been wondering ever since I read that date. Very curious, because it seems like there's been a reliably intuitive focus since the very beginning which generally takes years to develop.

I think the best I can do here is my usual answer: take some time every week to work on a problem that is a little bit harder than what you already know how to do. It requires discipline, and it's hard, but it reliably results in levelling up. It also helps with humility: if you're constantly working on things that are too hard for you to do, it's hard to build up an unhealthy belief in your own abilities. And humili…

I think this can be great advice, but is dependent on your level of humility; it can also a recipe for a serious case of imposter syndrome

Re: Yehuda Katz and Steve Klabnik Are Joining the Rust Core Team

#89

Post by [deleted] »

jonahx wrote: post #47
bjz_ wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It allows you to predictably squeeze more out of your system than you ever could in a higher level language without the worry of weird undefined behavior, buffer overflows, use-after-frees or segfaults. It also has an expressive static type system that draws a great deal from ML and Haskell.

What would be the reason to learn Rust over Haskell? They seem to be about in the same speed ballpark: http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/compare.php?lan... Is that not representative, or is the idea that Rust speeds the learning curve with its similarity to Ruby?

[deleted]

Re: Yehuda Katz and Steve Klabnik Are Joining the Rust Core Team

#90

Post by igouy »

imanaccount247 wrote: post #87
bjz_ wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so perhaps I grant you the fact that unsafe indexing is idiomatic. The Rust code is still safer and more robust against buffer overflows in the long term. Also, isn't regex-dna using libpcre? That's a C library, no? Rust's regex library is pure Rust, with no unsafe code. I love Haskell, but I still don't think it occupies the same space as Rust.

>Also, isn't regex-dna using libpcre? It is in virtually every language on the shootout. That's one of the reasons the shootout is so terrible. A regex benchmark doesn't tell you much of anything unless the task itself is to write the regex engine. >I love Haskell, but I still don't think it occupies the same space as Rust. Neither do I. I am simply correcting this weird meme that "haskell is really slow and the shoo…

> A regex benchmark doesn't tell you much of anything…

And yet, the programs don't all perform the same.

One regex task doesn't tell you much of anything because so much can be different with a different task. Then again, people are usually surprised by V8 and Irregexp.

The GHC version has been updated so many times since the last programs were contributed, that I hope the code would look better if it was written to use the latest greatest Haskell.

Post reply on HN