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Can a simple algebra test predict programming aptitude?

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Re: Can a simple algebra test predict programming aptitude?

#81

For an article about math, they seem surprisingly weak at differentiating between causation and correlation. It’s fairly common for incoming Computer Science majors to ask the question, “Why do I have to learn all this math if I just want to learn to program?” The correlation above suggests a possible answer: The ability to understand basic mathematics is likely correlated with the ability to “think algorithmically,”…

Should if you are going into a CE or CS course not have learnt to code at school before going to university English lit or classics students are expected to be able to read.

I learnt to program when I was 13 and that was in the middle stream at my upper school

Re: Can a simple algebra test predict programming aptitude?

#82
post #77
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just recognize that three consecutive numbers mean you divide by three and get the median of the three numbers. So 69/3-1, 69/3, 69/3+1, giving 22, 23, 24. No algebra involved, you just need to interpret the problem and build a tiny model in your head. Exactly like (some kinds of) programming.

That's exactly how I solved it. I'd consider myself a pretty decent programmer, but I did poorly in algebra and calculus at middle, high school, and university level. Give me "x + (x + 1) + (x + 2) = 69" and I wouldn't know where to start. I could probably turn that word problem into that equation, but I would have no idea how to actually solve the equation algebraically. But given the word problem alone I knew to di…

Are you saying that if the word problem was "2 consecutive numbers and a third number that was five higher than the second number" you'd be unable to solve it?

"Tricks" work for simple cases. Algebra works for all cases.

Re: Can a simple algebra test predict programming aptitude?

#83
post #69
post #61

If there is one thing that has always bothered me, is people evaluating student's prowess in "Computer Science" (which is not programming, shame on you) by having them learn your normal run-of-the-mill programming language/paradigm like Javascript, Python, PHP and whatnot and then claim they are not apt to program because they cannot solve problems or handle variables, mutability, etc etc. There are A LOT of differen…

Ah, Scheme.. You must be an Indiana University grad. Only school I know that uses Scheme that much.

Minnesota used Scheme when my son studied there. MIT did until about that year too.

Re: Can a simple algebra test predict programming aptitude?

#85
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A high correlation corresponds to predictive power... That's a bold statement. And one that is unfortunately often times false. Spurious correlations pop up everywhere. They can be notoriously bad at predicting things, and care must be taken not to take rash actions based on correlations that may have no actual clout. I'd say denying someone a job based off of an algebra test is sufficiently rash.

There's some correlations I love that illustrate this. You have "Lack of Pirates Causing Global Warming": http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikaandersen/2012/03/23/true-fa... and one I hadn't seen before, "Internet Explorer vs. Murder Rate", http://chrisblattman.com/2013/05/24/correlation-versus-causa...

If I'm trying to pick years with global warming and all I know is the pirate population, I can do pretty well.

Re: Can a simple algebra test predict programming aptitude?

#86
post #69
post #61

If there is one thing that has always bothered me, is people evaluating student's prowess in "Computer Science" (which is not programming, shame on you) by having them learn your normal run-of-the-mill programming language/paradigm like Javascript, Python, PHP and whatnot and then claim they are not apt to program because they cannot solve problems or handle variables, mutability, etc etc. There are A LOT of differen…

Ah, Scheme.. You must be an Indiana University grad. Only school I know that uses Scheme that much.

Lots of top schools use scheme (via SICP). Cal, Stanford and MIT all do (or at least did when I was an undergrad).

Re: Can a simple algebra test predict programming aptitude?

#87
The correlation doesn't seem particularly strong, but the dependent variable here isn't right. It's a stack ranking that's forced to a normal distribution. A normal distribution might be appropriate if they randomly selected US citizens to join the program, but they don't. Students self-select to apply and they reject the bottom 66% of applicants. The resulting talent profile is far from being normally distributed.

Re: Can a simple algebra test predict programming aptitude?

#88
I'll reply to a specific comment already made as a subcomment here, to comment about the larger issues that have come up in several top-level replies in this thread.

I don't think such a hypothesis is awkward but I doubt high IQ as an excellent predictor for an individuals performance in tasks that are not IQ tests. As a layman when it comes to psychology I think IQ measures some things but the way the brain works, no real world task a person does is exactly like those IQ tests.

The interesting blog post submitted here is talking about the bread and butter of "industrial and organizational psychology," namely about how to select individuals for a training program. There are three generations of published research on this topic already, and there is a huge amount of ongoing research on this topic, because organizations all over the world want to figure out how to select successful applicants when there are more applicants than places in school or work programs.

The short answer is that there is a HUGE body of research to show that the single best hiring process you can use for hiring a worker, if you want to get a worker who will perform well on the job, is to use an IQ test for hiring.[1] The long answer is that some other applicant characteristics matter too, of course, but the single best thing to look at in a job applicant is "general mental ability." Work-sample tests are also very good for hiring for specific jobs, and are grossly underused in hiring in the United States.

To the point of the interesting submitted blog post, one always has to be empirical about these issues. The people running the bootcamp so far have found data that suggests that the algebra test they have tried is a bit more revelatory than the IQ test they tried, and less expensive besides. One response to that might be to suggest a test like the Wonderlic test (an inexpensive IQ test designed for company hiring procedures) but in the end, results matter. If empirically at this bootcamp, the algebra test works better than some other selection procedure, it doesn't even really matter why it works, just that it serves the bootcamp's purpose of identifying successful students from among multiple applicants. The data set is still small. I am very glad that the blog post includes a scatterplot of the data. More bivariate data should be shown that way, in blog posts on dozens of topics.

[1] My FAQ post on company hiring procedures, which I am still revising to put on my personal website after composing it for Hacker News, provides references for this and some commentary on legal issues in hiring.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4613413#up_4613543

Re: Can a simple algebra test predict programming aptitude?

#89
post #11

Does a "simple algebra test" correlate with IQ? Does "programming aptitude" (whatever the hell that is meant to be) correlate with IQ? The headline would then follow. I know this is a socially unacceptable opinion but I think those correlations exist.

>"programming aptitude" (whatever the hell that is meant to be)

What's not clear about the term?

Re: Can a simple algebra test predict programming aptitude?

#90
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it is algebra. Take second problem for instance. X + (x + 1) + (x+ 2) = 69. Solve for x.

Or just recognize that three consecutive numbers mean you divide by three and get the median of the three numbers. So 69/3-1, 69/3, 69/3+1, giving 22, 23, 24. No algebra involved, you just need to interpret the problem and build a tiny model in your head. Exactly like (some kinds of) programming.

That's still algebra, using the equation (X-1) + (X) + (X+1) = 69 instead.
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