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Rides of Glory – Uber Blog (2012)

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Re: Rides of Glory – Uber Blog (2012)

#81

Post by nathanb »

leeber wrote: post #74

One more thing-- Would google publish data that shows how searches for porn spike during different times of the day or times of the year, as if it's some "cool and hip and edgy!" insight? I don't think so. And for the same reason they don't (whatever reason that is), it would probably also be wise for Uber not to post stuff like this. I really don't care, nor am I offended. I'm just speculating that Uber doesn't have…

This is actually a really good point.

Google have been fighting a public relations war for a long time now to not appear creepy or stalkerish. I can think of few things they could blog about to make people consider not using Google more than "we know when you're looking for porn".

Uber have not (yet?) been widely called out as being creepy the way Google have. But Uber have data that can be every bit as personal as your search history, and posts like these make it obvious that people at Uber are thinking hard about putting those data to use.

There's a lot lurking under what at first glance appears to be merely a poorly-considered sophomorish post.

Re: Rides of Glory – Uber Blog (2012)

#83

Post by knowtheory »

mrzimmerman wrote: post #73
striking wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here (for me personally, at least) is that Uber is not in the business of selling dates/"encounters" and that people don't expect a ridesharing company to go right for the sexual data. Even OKCupid is straddling the line here with http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/we-experiment-on-human-bei... noting that: To test this, we took pairs of bad matches (actual 30% match) and told them they were exceptionally…

The idea that statistics have a moral imperative to be "decent" is as fascinating as it is ridiculous. Anonymized data is not a privacy breach, and Uber probably doesn't have any data that can help with "hunger, poverty, illiteracy, etc.". I'm sorry if the idea that "people's short overnight stays are evident in their travel data" makes you blush, but that isn't anyone else's problem.

The whole point is that it's not anonymized and it's being inspected for and used for purposes that have little to do with the ostensible customer-service agreement.

People aren't used to transit companies interrogating them about the purposes of their journeys, they just want the transit company to get them from point A to point B (imagine if they did this when you got in the car: "Where are you going? Why?")

And obviously from a business perspective the more you understand your customers and their motivations the better you can serve them.

But lets not kid ourselves. This isn't anonymized data. Uber's publishing in a format that is unspecific, but they have all of the detailed data and can poke through it and infer things at their leisure, and they have no compunction around how they're doing it or why.

This is why ethics and trust around data collectors is really important. Uber seems pretty cavalier about it, and that actually is a problem.

Re: Rides of Glory – Uber Blog (2012)

#84

Post by xophe »

mmcclure wrote: post #26

I gotta say, I'm not really seeing the creepy / cringey / evil / whatever-else here... Anyone (especially the HN crowd) should know they have the data, and if you think they're not carefully analyzing it behind the scenes (like every other tech company who has your data), I've got things to sell you. I personally think a tiny peek like this into the data, much like the usage posts that OKCupid, YouPorn, and others gi…

Guys aren't really hitting it on the head. It's about the level of behavior that companies release analysis on.

See, there's another company that occasionally releases interesting data analytics: Google.

See: Word frequency over time, Predicting the spread of viruses from searches, etc.

The issue is that Uber is trying to explain motive and behavior at the individual level ("I know something about you!"). This is something that would be a definite no-no for Google. The cheekiness of the language certainly doesn't help either.

Re: Rides of Glory – Uber Blog (2012)

#85

Post by pistle »

So they blog about it in aggregate. It's not like they would know exactly who each of those riders were and would think about using that data for anything than the lulz. I'm sure this sort of data wouldn't be interesting for social engineering purposes in the hands of 'others' as well.

Re: Rides of Glory – Uber Blog (2012)

#86

Post by jdpage »

threeseed wrote: post #55
mmcclure wrote: post #26

I gotta say, I'm not really seeing the creepy / cringey / evil / whatever-else here... Anyone (especially the HN crowd) should know they have the data, and if you think they're not carefully analyzing it behind the scenes (like every other tech company who has your data), I've got things to sell you. I personally think a tiny peek like this into the data, much like the usage posts that OKCupid, YouPorn, and others gi…

Difference is OkCupid does it with class. Uber doesn't. The more and more I hear about this company the more I am thankful we have heavily regulated taxis/cabs.

...which Uber will, potentially, drive out of business because their service is cheaper, due to lack of regulation. :(

Re: Rides of Glory – Uber Blog (2012)

#87

Post by bricestacey »

The Boston anomaly and map is interesting. The requirements are a trip from 10pm-4am and a trip again 4-6 hours later. However, due to the MBTA shutting down around 12:30am and bars closing at 2am the criteria captures just about any partygoer.

So if you took an uber to some bar/club/friends at 10-11pm and again after 2am when all bars or the T is closed, you're likely counted. I doubt this represents customers having one night stands and is likely just a heat map. This is further explained by the small pocket in Somerville that is not accessible by the train, but by bus where people may opt for an uber.

That's not to say that there are no rides of glory or whatever the hell kids call it today.

Re: Rides of Glory – Uber Blog (2012)

#88

Post by foobarian »

threeseed wrote: post #55
mmcclure wrote: post #26

I gotta say, I'm not really seeing the creepy / cringey / evil / whatever-else here... Anyone (especially the HN crowd) should know they have the data, and if you think they're not carefully analyzing it behind the scenes (like every other tech company who has your data), I've got things to sell you. I personally think a tiny peek like this into the data, much like the usage posts that OKCupid, YouPorn, and others gi…

Difference is OkCupid does it with class. Uber doesn't. The more and more I hear about this company the more I am thankful we have heavily regulated taxis/cabs.

And yet, there exists a huge database of precise pickup/dropoff points and times for NYC yellow taxicabs that someone obtained using a Freedom of Information Act. http://www.andresmh.com/nyctaxitrips/

I think I'd rather my data only be available to a private company and their handful of engineers than the whole world.

Re: Rides of Glory – Uber Blog (2012)

#89

Post by striking »

mrzimmerman wrote: post #73
striking wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here (for me personally, at least) is that Uber is not in the business of selling dates/"encounters" and that people don't expect a ridesharing company to go right for the sexual data. Even OKCupid is straddling the line here with http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/we-experiment-on-human-bei... noting that: To test this, we took pairs of bad matches (actual 30% match) and told them they were exceptionally…

The idea that statistics have a moral imperative to be "decent" is as fascinating as it is ridiculous. Anonymized data is not a privacy breach, and Uber probably doesn't have any data that can help with "hunger, poverty, illiteracy, etc.". I'm sorry if the idea that "people's short overnight stays are evident in their travel data" makes you blush, but that isn't anyone else's problem.

I included the word "decent" because the way they used data goes beyond people's "overnight stays," they previously analyzed the spending patterns of people and tied it to welfare checks and prostitution. They immediately call it "one of the coolest things about working for a data-driven company like Uber" afterwards. It's bad data science, not only because it's only a correlation and not an experiment so nothing can be proven, but because they use these unproven claims to say outlandish and unethical things.

I meant "decent" in an ethical sense, not in a conservative "don't you look at my 'short overnight stays'" sense.

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