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Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#81

Post by icebraining »

talmand wrote: post #80
icebraining wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about them?

I can see from this response and the other you made, you're not really willing to discuss this in any objective manner. It seems you have issues that go deeper than just this simple discussion. I hope you manage to work them out and good luck to you.

Nope, no issues, just disagreement. The other post was simply responding to tone; not very mature, I admit, but I find that line of reasoning dishonest.

I believe what you perceive as issues is just the fact that you're expecting people to argue it as a simple policy, while I believe that it's an ethical question. That said, I'll suggest that three shorts posts is a rather small sample to psychoanalyze someone.

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#82

Post by cylinder »

LLWM wrote: post #7
cryoshon wrote: post #6

If Obama's drive for immigration reform uses the logic of "STEM SHORTAGE!!!" as a basis for expanding OPT, it means that hyperbole has won, and we here at HN will suffer lower wages and a more competitive job market as a result. I'm not actually sure that this is what the rhetoric is going to look like, but the rest of my comment assumes that it will look that way as it pertains to the expansion of OPT. There is no S…

It's a bit sad that you see competition on a global scale as "being fucked over". If someone else can do the same job just as well as you, you think employers should be forced to hire you instead just because you happened to be born in the right country? That's just selfishness that harms everyone else.

Yes? How is that selfish? You commit to a life here, you take on student debt, you study for years under the promise that your government is looking out for you above others.

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#83

Post by cylinder »

icebraining wrote: post #38
cryoshon wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The free market favors the wealth of corporations at the detriment of individual people. The tech companies would absolutely love it if they could get away with paying their workers as little as the developing countries do; decreasing wages results in increased profits, which are the only thing that matter to them. I don't see a reason why we have to abide by their greed when we have so much to lose and nothing to ga…

nothing to gain. Except for those foreigners who get much higher salaries than at home, plus their whole families and communities thanks to remittances.

Your argument in favor of eased immigration to the US is that foreigners will benefit?

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#84

Post by kazagistar »

cylinder wrote: post #83
icebraining wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nothing to gain. Except for those foreigners who get much higher salaries than at home, plus their whole families and communities thanks to remittances.

Your argument in favor of eased immigration to the US is that foreigners will benefit?

Yes. Just like the argument for democracy is that peasants will benefit (at possible cost to nobles). Just like the arument for racial desegregation is that black people will benefit (while possibly inconveniencing white people).

No one said freedom and equality were easy. The privalaged lose their advantages.

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#85

Post by LLWM »

rayiner wrote: post #39
LLWM wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit sad that you see competition on a global scale as "being fucked over". If someone else can do the same job just as well as you, you think employers should be forced to hire you instead just because you happened to be born in the right country? That's just selfishness that harms everyone else.

People are entitled to their self-interest, and it is in peoples' self-interest to avoid the race to the bottom that results from globalization. Furthermore, governments exist to serve their specific constituents, not to hew to abstract humanist principles. Also, even within the context of abstract humanist principles, immigration isn't wholly positive. My family and I are immigrants to the U.S. It's been great for u…

A race to the bottom means a race towards efficiency. This is a net benefit to society. Sure, selfish people might stand in its way, and if you sympathize with them, that's your choice, but don't pretend it's something admirable.

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#86

Post by LLWM »

talmand wrote: post #58
icebraining wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nothing to gain. Except for those foreigners who get much higher salaries than at home, plus their whole families and communities thanks to remittances.

But we can easily reverse that. What about the local that now has to accept lower wages at home, which also affects their whole families and communities?

They also have lower costs so their lower wages go further. They might be slightly worse off on the balance, but it's outweighed by the benefits those lower costs bring to everyone else. It also frees them up for other pursuits. It's really no different from any other technological advancement that put people out of work.

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#87

Post by waterlesscloud »

LLWM wrote: post #85
rayiner wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are entitled to their self-interest, and it is in peoples' self-interest to avoid the race to the bottom that results from globalization. Furthermore, governments exist to serve their specific constituents, not to hew to abstract humanist principles. Also, even within the context of abstract humanist principles, immigration isn't wholly positive. My family and I are immigrants to the U.S. It's been great for u…

A race to the bottom means a race towards efficiency. This is a net benefit to society. Sure, selfish people might stand in its way, and if you sympathize with them, that's your choice, but don't pretend it's something admirable.

Global "efficiency" is a net negative for every single person reading this.

Why are you standing in the way of it?

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#88

Post by [deleted] »

LLWM wrote: post #85
rayiner wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are entitled to their self-interest, and it is in peoples' self-interest to avoid the race to the bottom that results from globalization. Furthermore, governments exist to serve their specific constituents, not to hew to abstract humanist principles. Also, even within the context of abstract humanist principles, immigration isn't wholly positive. My family and I are immigrants to the U.S. It's been great for u…

A race to the bottom means a race towards efficiency. This is a net benefit to society. Sure, selfish people might stand in its way, and if you sympathize with them, that's your choice, but don't pretend it's something admirable.

[deleted]

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#89

Post by seanflyon »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #87
LLWM wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A race to the bottom means a race towards efficiency. This is a net benefit to society. Sure, selfish people might stand in its way, and if you sympathize with them, that's your choice, but don't pretend it's something admirable.

Global "efficiency" is a net negative for every single person reading this. Why are you standing in the way of it?

I care about people who are not reading this.

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#90

Post by rayiner »

LLWM wrote: post #85
rayiner wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are entitled to their self-interest, and it is in peoples' self-interest to avoid the race to the bottom that results from globalization. Furthermore, governments exist to serve their specific constituents, not to hew to abstract humanist principles. Also, even within the context of abstract humanist principles, immigration isn't wholly positive. My family and I are immigrants to the U.S. It's been great for u…

A race to the bottom means a race towards efficiency. This is a net benefit to society. Sure, selfish people might stand in its way, and if you sympathize with them, that's your choice, but don't pretend it's something admirable.

"Efficiency" usually just means more of the wealth of society accumulating to capital holders. Nothing admirable about that.
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