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A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

nytimes.com

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Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#81

Post by andreasvc »

ahknight wrote: post #14
andreasvc wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO the terminology of neurochemical imbalance should be avoided. It's the sort of framing that is much preferred by the pharmacological industry, because it suggests that the nature of the problem is well understood and can be directly addressed with their products. In reality there is only a very vague idea of mental illness and related neurotransmitters. To make a computer analogy, it's like calling a problem an "…

In fairness, software runs on hardware and a faulty instruction would send electrons to the wrong place and cause an imbalance... /melvin That said, this has been proven many times over to be rooted in an atypical response to normal levels of neurotransmitters which then results in the appearance of an imbalance or, depending on your perspective, a real imbalance as that specific set of neurons requires higher baseli…

No, nothing has been "proven" about ADHD or other sorts of mental illness. We only have clusterings of symptoms, but know nothing about root causes. Certain chemicals seem to interact well with the symptoms, but again there is no known mechanism that fully explains the mechanism of action. There have been hypotheses that e.g. schizophrenia is explained by dopamine and depression by serotonin, but these have all proven to be too simplistic, because in many patients the levels of these neurotransmitters do change after taking medication, but the symptoms stay.

I should say I'm not at all anti-pharma. I just think that the marketing should be honest. It should be "this addresses some of the symptoms", and not "this corrects your imbalances" because the scientific hypotheses about those imbalances have long been disproven. My hunch is that the structure of neural connections also has to play a big role. This would explain why simply changing levels of chemicals does not immediately fix things.

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#82

Post by funkyy »

DonHopkins wrote: post #78
funkyy wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I knew a kid that had ADHD. Unfortunately it was just a label - way for a kid to get everything. The kid didn't had ADHD imo, he was just spoiled and his parents were failing to do any parenting. The kid would eat whole mountain of sweets, drink cola all day, play games and scream and cry whenever he was prohibited something. In school he wasnt interested in learning and he basically would do nothing or play portable…

Somebody was reading a list of ADHD warning signs to me from some self help book, which all perfectly described a mutual friend of ours: things like "interrupts other people while they're talking", "doesn't return phone calls", "no respect for authority", "always wants to be the center of attention", etc. I asked, "Maybe they're just an asshole? Isn't it possible to be an asshole without having ADHD?" Oh, all right,…

People LOVE to put labels on things. In many cases ADHD is one of them. This hurts people that REALLY have ADHD though.

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#84

Post by lnanek2 »

The article wonders at the huge increase in diagnoses that mysteriously disappear in adulthood, but if the author had spent some time at college recently he'd know that Adderall is seen as THE way to ace tests and study more.

It isn't difficult to walk into a doctors office and act and say the right way and things to get your prescription after you get tired of buying it off friends, either.

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#86

Post by ahknight »

dasmithii wrote: post #58
ahknight wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Willfully ignorant of science.

How so? Watts doesn't deny the differences between those affected by ADHD and those who are not. He argues that these differences are best understood as personality traits and not products of an affliction. This isn't a matter of ignorance, but interpretation of and reaction to scientific discoveries.

There is no success because of ADHD. There is success despite having ADHD.

It's not a personality trait that I cannot physically do something I want to do and need to do without medication and, frankly, I'm sick of people who don't experience it offering new theories on it as if they have some grand insight into it.

Get a head injury that breaks your executive functions. Join us. Then try to offer it up as a personality trait.

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#87

Post by emotionalcode »

schalab wrote: post #80
ahknight wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar story here: early age, 0 or 100, high tests and little completion. The difference is I've been programming for most of my life (I'm not exaggerating; I started at 7y). It's likely because I started so young that I find that's my hyper focus outlet, though I still find that every time I try to learn Java it feels so painful I break something and run away (though I know C, C++, Obj-C, Swift, Python, PHP, Perl,…

The article insinuates that the core problem is the higher base line of stimulus required for motivation. How does Adderall fix this? Do you feel mundane repetitive tasks are more rewarding now? What about tasks that would feel great even without the medication? Do they overload your circuits then? Am curious as to how the drug manifests itself in your day to day routine.

I was late diagnosed with ADHD. I used to be on Adderall for years. I'm now on a non-stimulant medication, as well as an anti-anxiety anti-depressant.

Adderall helped me in college. It helped me get every homework done, even if the homework was pointless.

I spent some time trying to switch medications, as I personally did not like feeling glued to whatever activity I was doing. I like having the choice to focus, or not focus.

I switched environments, where I could experiment with this new way of approaching learning and working. I don't mind iterative, mundane tasks, because at the end of the day and before I begin them, I try to think about why it's interesting, novel, and different, for me to perform this iteration of task. I try to think that the fact that I have gotten my mind to this state without dramatic intervention is as well novel, unique, and worthy of self praise.

In a world where I already felt distracted and slow, Adderall offers a quick fix. But I would have never built those parts of myself, of my mind, that can find novelty in what superficially appears to be 'boring'. I just try to change everything else in my control, to help myself see 'boring' in a different perspective. If I work in java at work on jsp pages, at home and during my 'web surfing time' at work, I teach myself about unikernals, clojure, the curry howard isomorphism - with serious intent, over long periods of time. And then I begin to see connections in the ordinary that are extraordinary.

As for nootropics, I'm trying to look for research in anything that uses language such as 'relaxing / calming' and 'focus'. I think there is a serious slant in literature that truly believes, and primes it's audience to believe stimulant -> better concentration. Stimulant -> temporary concentration. I am firmly confident that stimulants either prevent or override the creation of neural connections that are less explicit.

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#88

Post by 54mf »

ajcarpy2005 wrote: post #61

Essential Fatty Acids play a role. It's not productive to focus on just one causal factor normally but EFA deficiency is quite common because of: 1. maligning of dietary fats 2. high cost of fish relative to other foods 3. time and effort required to cook eggs in morning and the tremendous marketing investments in easier but ultimately unsustainable 'foods' It's a shame that so much knowledge about human health goes…

[Citation Needed]

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#89

Post by tormeh »

dasmithii wrote: post #67
ahknight wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You speak with the world view of a neurotypical human. I'm happy for you. For the perspective of the broken toys in the box, let me explain. :) When an NT is asked to do a boring, repetitive task, he'll do it for eight hours and then get drunk afterwards to recover. Good job. When an ADHD-afflicted individual is asked to do a boring, repetitive task, he'll do it for about five minutes and then spend eight hours tryin…

First of all, thank you for this in-depth response. It beats the hell out of anonymous and explanation-less downvotes. I had never come across the word neurotypical before your comment and now, after reading the corresponding wikipedia page, I am aware that it does characterize me (i.e. "anyone who does not have autism, dyslexia, developmental coordination disorder, bipolar disorder, ADD/ADHD, or other similar condit…

So does the experience of repeatedly failing at tasks you are expected to master.

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#90

Post by chimeracoder »

adhd_anon wrote: post #79

I have severe inattentive ADHD. 1. There is absolutely no sympathy: The problem with ADHD is that it is a disorder of degree not kind. If I had epilepsy or cancer or had some of my limbs missing then people around me would be supportive and understanding. But not ADHD. Everybody's mind wanders. Everyone would like to only do interesting things. Everyone forgets things from time to time. But, the problem is the degree…

I've found that this webcomic does a reasonable job at illustrating that to people who don't understand mental illness: http://www.robot-hugs.com/helpful-advice/

In the example you list, it'd be like telling the first person, "Everyone feels bloated after eating a big meal - that doesn't mean you need to stay in bed all day when you think you have 'food poisoning'".

I agree that it's frustrating to read articles like this that trivialize mental disorders and downplay the struggles that they can actually cause for people.

EDIT: Changed comic link to original source

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