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Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

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Re: Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

#81

I've been messing around with the Google Camera app and the new Camera API provided by Android 5. It turns out that you can actually obtain a lot higher quality images by using the DNG (digital negative) of the photo, instead of using the JPEG. By "HDRing" images yourself, you can actually outperform Google Camera's HDR+ functionality. Here's the JPEG, non HDR+ shot on a Nexus 5: http://i.imgur.com/So44muL.jpg Here's…

Could Google's HDR+ also use DNG instead of jpeg and combine those automatically? That would make it much slower, though, so they'd have to take 3 at most.

Re: Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

#82

I've been messing around with the Google Camera app and the new Camera API provided by Android 5. It turns out that you can actually obtain a lot higher quality images by using the DNG (digital negative) of the photo, instead of using the JPEG. By "HDRing" images yourself, you can actually outperform Google Camera's HDR+ functionality. Here's the JPEG, non HDR+ shot on a Nexus 5: http://i.imgur.com/So44muL.jpg Here's…

Is this handheld or mounted somehow? That last image looks great, but I thought HDR Pro needed it to be stable between shots.

Re: Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

#83

Yikes. That first picture looks awful. The HDR+ version looks like cheap CGI. Very plasticy. Some of the other pics are nice so that seems like a really weird one to lead with.

As someone who is a pretty serious hobbyist photographer, it is actually the second picture that looks very unnatural to me. The first one I can imagine existing in "real life" if there were a soft-box enclosed fill light out of the frame that was lighting up the lady's face (it can't be the sun since the tree isn't being lit the way it would if the light hitting her was point-light-esque), which would make the photo…

The interesting thing about the second HDR+ photo is that it seems to have true high dynamic range instead of the limited range created by different exposure settings. The subjects are actually darker than in the non-HDR picture. I'm not saying that it looks great, just that it's interesting from a technical perspective.

Re: Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really, I don't see anything good in his photos. All these post-processed photos lack a lot of detail, even from a smartphone standards.

And this is part of the problem - it was never about detail, or more generally technical perfection. But yet that's where the conversation starts and stops. The conversation around cameras focuses on noise level, dynamic range, or lens sharpness - none of which are particularly critical traits for producing great photography. The Tank Man[1] photograph would not pass muster even by low-end cell phone standards today,…

> And this is part of the problem - it was never about detail, or more generally technical perfection.

While I agree with you for the most part, and never argue about gear (other than having been a fan of Bibble before they were bought).. there is one thing I really miss from your example photos, and from smartphone photography, and that is something being out of focus. Now, I'm not a great photographer, I just take snapshots and then edit them badly, but for example this I like: http://a.sandboxx.org/johann/376/

I wouldn't be surprised if that will one day be possible with very compact lenses, or with multiple ones plus software or whatever, but for the time being, at least for some shots, you need focal length period. Candid and news photography is a lot different from, say, wedding and product photography. And if an algorithm allows better handheld photos, it also makes tripod photos even better, so sometimes there isn't even a gap being closed, it all just gets shifted.

> nearly all cameras (including cell phone cameras) are well past the point of enabling.

During that same vacation, while sitting at the beach in the morning, I noticed a fish jumping out of the water. Using my 1337 video game target leading skills, I moved the viewfinder across the ocean surface where I expected the fish to be, and was able to take two photos of it, one with two ladies having a chat while doing their morning swim. Again, not a great photo, but for me as the person who sat there, it's a nice memory, something that will always make me smile http://a.sandboxx.org/johann/241/ And it's still totally a snapshot, I just sat at the beach, watching sea gulls, smoking cigarettes. Candid ocean photography, if you will ^^ Of course I got lucky, I wouldn't have had time to change lenses; but still, cell phones cameras are not "well past" being able to reach everywhere.

I'm really happy for anyone who makes photos, and I think you are right that dismissing them on technical grounds is silly. A good photo does not need to justify how or why it was done, and when it comes to once-in-a-lifetime moments, even a drawing from memory is better than nothing. But just like you can make a useful website with just HTML and no CSS, and a very pretty and functional one without Javascript, doesn't mean these tools don't have their uses, right? What's more, sometimes a website that works fine without them, would work even better with them, and not everybody who cares about progress and performance is not getting anything done - those things are orthogonal. It can't just be easily generalized.

Re: Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

#85

I've been messing around with the Google Camera app and the new Camera API provided by Android 5. It turns out that you can actually obtain a lot higher quality images by using the DNG (digital negative) of the photo, instead of using the JPEG. By "HDRing" images yourself, you can actually outperform Google Camera's HDR+ functionality. Here's the JPEG, non HDR+ shot on a Nexus 5: http://i.imgur.com/So44muL.jpg Here's…

Is this handheld or mounted somehow? That last image looks great, but I thought HDR Pro needed it to be stable between shots.

All hand held, shot from 1/35th of a second to 1/1000th of a second. HDR Pro does some basic auto aligning and ghost removal, AFAIK.

Re: Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

#86

I've been messing around with the Google Camera app and the new Camera API provided by Android 5. It turns out that you can actually obtain a lot higher quality images by using the DNG (digital negative) of the photo, instead of using the JPEG. By "HDRing" images yourself, you can actually outperform Google Camera's HDR+ functionality. Here's the JPEG, non HDR+ shot on a Nexus 5: http://i.imgur.com/So44muL.jpg Here's…

Could Google's HDR+ also use DNG instead of jpeg and combine those automatically? That would make it much slower, though, so they'd have to take 3 at most.

There's nothing technical that's stopping them from doing it. I expect third party apps to do something similar once Lollipop has a higher market share.

Re: Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The blogspot fails to discuss why Samsung Galaxy S4/S5 HDR results are much better than my Nexus 5's Well, $300 price difference can buy you a lot. Now I get it. Comments like this one must be why Google felt pressured into making the next Nexus phone so much more expensive :P

Probably has a bit to do with it... I, for one was really happy with a great mid-range option that was by far the best value in each release... still on my N4, and not sure what I'm going to get as an upgrade.

Yep, I'm with you.

I'm more or less fine with the nexus 5's camera (usually if an event is important to capture with great quality, someone else has a better camera already there), so I'd much rather the nexuses stick to the price point than go up in quality for a disproportionately larger increase in price.

Re: Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

#88
post #78

Why can't Canon and Nikon DSLRs provide some basic built-in HDR?

At least some modern DSLRs do. My Canon 5D Mark III supports hand-held HDR for example. It did take a while to find its way into higher-end models though. I assume the thinking was in part that the primary audience would be shooting on tripods and could just combine bracketed photos on the computer.

Re: Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

#89

I've been messing around with the Google Camera app and the new Camera API provided by Android 5. It turns out that you can actually obtain a lot higher quality images by using the DNG (digital negative) of the photo, instead of using the JPEG. By "HDRing" images yourself, you can actually outperform Google Camera's HDR+ functionality. Here's the JPEG, non HDR+ shot on a Nexus 5: http://i.imgur.com/So44muL.jpg Here's…

I didn't know it was possible to save real DNGs on Android (as opposed to JPEGs inside DNGs). I've been waiting for years to be able to shoot RAW on a phone camera.

Do you mind posting a DNG file of this photo? I might switch from iOS if Apple doesn't provide this functionality soon enough.

Re: Low Light and High Dynamic Range photography in the Google Camera App

#90

One should remember that writing camera software that is agnostic to the hardware is technically hard, and nearly impossible if you want gorgeous photos (a la iPhone). When taking astronomy images we would characterize the CCD (mostly for noise) each night, and you need that kind of approach to tune your software to your hardware.

My understanding is that most flagship camera sensors are made by Sony, so there may be less diversity of hardware than there appears to be.
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