Live data from Hacker News

Entrepreneurs think they’re badass

ryancarson.com

81–89 of 89 posts

Re: Entrepreneurs think they’re badass

#81
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe for some people, their passion lies in money/fame/etc ,but they see very clearly how attacking said opportunity would lead to those, and it gives them enough "passion" and motivation?

I pity someone who is 'passionate' about those things.

I think it's simplistic to say that someone attacking a problem because they think it will be profitable is intrinsically shallow. There could be many problems that a person sees they could solve, and they could choose one most likely to be profitable first a stepping stone to make the others easier.

Also some things are said to be difficult, and that alone gives certain types of people motivation to solve them, since they feel a certain type of disconnect with their intuition of what is possible and what other people around them are telling them.

Re: Entrepreneurs think they’re badass

#82
post #73
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No human alive doesn't want power. That's the basic evolutionary fuel of our entire species. There's no other desire humans even have -- anything else is just a means to that end. Demonstrably wrong. Desire for power is certainly common among primates, but there are a number of basic drives. Drives people have it in different amounts. Further, there's no particular reason to think it was a huge evolutionary driver…

>Further, there's no particular reason to think it was a huge evolutionary driver for us. http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=bV9yeFV6_ckC&oi=f... >People are naturally violent, but we mostly set that aside This is the most demonstrably wrong thing. Try killing a man and say that you are naturally violent. Humans are social animals and to commit violence against one another is very difficult for us. The people…

From the book you link to: "All these hypotheses share one thing: the implication that the cognitive capability we call intelligence is linked with social living and the problems of complexity it can pose."

It's a long, long trip from "linked to social living" (which, duh) to "power is the basic evolutionary fuel". If power were really the big thing, we'd have a social structure and mating relationships more like elephant seals than parrots.

> Try killing a man and say that you are naturally violent.

Yes, that's my point. Your whole approach is a fallacious appeal to nature. You justify your obsession with power by saying that evolutionarily it's all about power. But what is natural tells us nothing about what it right.

Of course we are naturally violent, just like the rest of the great apes. Every toddler quickly decides that violence is a great problem-solver. We put a lot of effort into training them out of it and still don't do very well. Every human society has a history of violence. Every legal code deals with violence. And we do that because violence is natural but wrong.

As to the last bit, that looks like willful misinterpretation. His whole point is that he's not in it for the rewards, that those are mostly luck. As a fundamentalist, you can't of course credit his explanation, so to you it looks disingenuous. Because you only admit of one possible motivation, you take your interpretation as more proof of your obsession. It's the same routine that biblical fundies do. Something good happens? God be praised! Something bad happens? God is making us stronger through trial. Atheists? Well obviously they say those things because they hate God, so clearly they really do believe in God.

For them, it all comes back to God. For you, it all comes back to power. I hope you eventually get over it. "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Re: Entrepreneurs think they’re badass

#83
post #82
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Further, there's no particular reason to think it was a huge evolutionary driver for us. http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=bV9yeFV6_ckC&oi=f... >People are naturally violent, but we mostly set that aside This is the most demonstrably wrong thing. Try killing a man and say that you are naturally violent. Humans are social animals and to commit violence against one another is very difficult for us. The people…

From the book you link to: "All these hypotheses share one thing: the implication that the cognitive capability we call intelligence is linked with social living and the problems of complexity it can pose." It's a long, long trip from "linked to social living" (which, duh) to "power is the basic evolutionary fuel". If power were really the big thing, we'd have a social structure and mating relationships more like ele…

>Of course we are naturally violent,

...did you read my comment?

Do you think warfighter PTSD is caused by social conditioning?

It's possible to be fundamentalist towards mediocrity, which it appears you are if anyone in this conversation is a fundamentalist.

Sometimes the truth is not in the middle. The truth doesn't care where it is.

Re: Entrepreneurs think they’re badass

#84
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No human alive doesn't want power. That's the basic evolutionary fuel of our entire species. There's no other desire humans even have -- anything else is just a means to that end. Demonstrably wrong. Desire for power is certainly common among primates, but there are a number of basic drives. Drives people have it in different amounts. Further, there's no particular reason to think it was a huge evolutionary driver…

"Everything in the world is about sex, except sex. Sex is about power." --Oscar Wilde. [ https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/6218-everything-in-the-worl... ] Mate competition is a powerful force in human evolution. Evidence: males are 20% larger than females, and the ancient male breeding population is about half the size of the total male population (these are utterly uncontroversial facts, and if you ask any biologist…

I agree that mate competition was a force. Not a huge one, though; compare male elephant seals which are not 20% larger, but 200%. But I believe the person I'm replying to is focused on a broader notion of power than merely getting to pick who you can mate with. I think he's conflating status with power, which are related but distinct phenomena. And then he's blowing power up into The Only Thing That Matters, which is what I'm objecting to.

Also, I think the monogamy thing is kooky. Your model there implies that men will be deciding the whole who-mates-with-whom question, with women as property. That is how it works for elephant seals, but it's not the only way. Instead of trying to construct a mandatory monogamy, we could let women also participate in the decision-making process. Novel, I know, but we've been moving in that direction for a century or two and it seems like we're making progress.

Re: Entrepreneurs think they’re badass

#85
post #18
post #16

Years ago someone said to me, "Luck happens to those who let it." It's stuck with me, because I think it's so true. In fact it's what makes Napoleon's famous (and probably apocryphal) statement actionable: "When I choose Generals I prefer the lucky ones." I've started large companies and tiny / failed ones; although I look back at my own execution problems for the ones that didn't make it, I recognize that the ones t…

I understand where you are coming from, but you should also acknowledge the other side of ego too. Ego can fuel people to become their vision of themselves and people with egos tend to have a hard working self image. I'm not saying ego is good, because it can take you down if not managed. But to say that there are no positives is a little bit extreme.

> "people with egos tend to have a hard working self image"

I guess I haven't seen this much! Yes, if you're a shrinking violet and can't put yourself out there you will have a hard time succeeding in almost any domain, but the ability to do so can be learned.

In my experience, when someone says "ego" it usually means "asshole".

Re: Entrepreneurs think they’re badass

#86
post #16

Years ago someone said to me, "Luck happens to those who let it." It's stuck with me, because I think it's so true. In fact it's what makes Napoleon's famous (and probably apocryphal) statement actionable: "When I choose Generals I prefer the lucky ones." I've started large companies and tiny / failed ones; although I look back at my own execution problems for the ones that didn't make it, I recognize that the ones t…

> the ones that succeeded were lucky, and we were just lucky enough to be able to take advantage of that luck. Amen. Amen. I'd love to hear more about your past adventures. What were the large companies and the failed/tiny ones?

Well Cygnus was pretty big and pioneered the free software business model, forking, and a whole bunch of things like that. TLGnet was one of the very first ISPs.

I also did an enterprise DB company, Zembu, that pretty much sank without a trace (the tech ended up in DB2). I made a drug at Talima that is still in trials so who knows? Terrajoule.... well the jury is out.

And castAR I plan will be huge!

You can see some background by looking me up on Linkedin: D. Henkel-Wallace. I should resurrect my Wikipedia page.

Re: Entrepreneurs think they’re badass

#87
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The basic evolutionary drive behind our species, and all others, is to reproduce and spread your genes. Everything else stems, however circuitously, from redirected or misdirected reproductive drive. Actually, it's you who's misdirected. Increasing inclusive fitness is the end, not the means, of an evolutionary adaptation. In humans, and in other social species like great apes, the evolutionary adaptation that exist…

> It's a matter of ambition, and degree, isn't it? Plenty of people who are otherwise powerless take power through drugs. It's the same game. Some people win more objectively than others. By the rules of your game, a driven executive who makes hundreds of millions of dollars but can't find real satisfaction is more "objectively winning" than a guy who's straddling the poverty line but has everything he needs and is v…

>By the rules of your game, a driven executive who makes hundreds of millions of dollars but can't find real satisfaction is more "objectively winning" than a guy who's straddling the poverty line but has everything he needs and is very happy with his life.

I'd say that by any standards the executive is winning. He's improving, growing, and becoming a stronger and better person, able to command more and more resources. The happy bum is still a bum. You can take drugs if you want to be happy. They'll keep you happy right up until you overdose.

But people never want to take drugs. They want to be happy for real reasons. They want to have actual power, not the impression of it.

Re: Entrepreneurs think they’re badass

#88
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe for some people, their passion lies in money/fame/etc ,but they see very clearly how attacking said opportunity would lead to those, and it gives them enough "passion" and motivation?

I pity someone who is 'passionate' about those things.

There is a miasma of fakery and posturing in the startup world about making money, everyone pretends as if they are so passionate about what they are doing and not interested in money at all, even though they are almost certainly interested in money to some degree. I guess they feel that being at all motivated by monetary gain cheapens their image. Reminds me of an article I recently read about attitudes surrounding money in French culture, pretty interesting:

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/12/12/no-exit-3

You can be passionate about what you are doing and interested in making money as well, it isn't either or. Personally I have no shame admitting I would be delighted to make an obscene amount of money in a short period of time, because to me money means freedom. I could spend time with people I love and do things I find interesting and enjoyable, rather than living for the next paycheck and having money end up owning me and my life as is the case with so many people who pursue high stress, high paying long term careers to "provide for their family" and end up miserable and distant. Another reason is that, call me entitled and selfish, but I don't enjoy the idea of working for someone else, likely doing something I'm only marginally passionate about, and having them take majority of the value of my efforts while giving me a fixed salary, though for many people I'm sure the stability of this is perfectly acceptable.

However, I do agree probably nothing good will come of you if you are motivated purely by profit with 0 interest or passion in what you are doing. I select projects that I am personally interested in simply because I find it extremely difficult to work on things that I don't get excited about.

Re: Entrepreneurs think they’re badass

#89
post #83
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the book you link to: "All these hypotheses share one thing: the implication that the cognitive capability we call intelligence is linked with social living and the problems of complexity it can pose." It's a long, long trip from "linked to social living" (which, duh) to "power is the basic evolutionary fuel". If power were really the big thing, we'd have a social structure and mating relationships more like ele…

>Of course we are naturally violent, ...did you read my comment? Do you think warfighter PTSD is caused by social conditioning? It's possible to be fundamentalist towards mediocrity, which it appears you are if anyone in this conversation is a fundamentalist. Sometimes the truth is not in the middle. The truth doesn't care where it is.

Well if we've reached, "nuh-uh, you're the real fundamentalist" with a side order of personification of abstracts, then I think we're unlikely to make any more progress. Have fun.
Post reply on HN