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Plastc Card

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Re: Plastc Card

#81

Post by raesene4 »

Whilst I wouldn't go as far as to say "never going to happen", I am fairly cynical about this and similar products like coin.

Not for any particular technical reason (although I'd be very interested to hear how they plan to make this work with Chip & PIN) but from a risk/liability perspective.

At the moment most banks that I'm aware of provide an online fraud guarantee and a credit card fraud guarantee, so as long as you keep your credentials secure, they'll pay back if you get defrauded (I know it's not quite as simple as that but for the purposes of this comment I think that'll do)

so the problem with this kind of product is that you're adding another company (plastc) to the trusted list, you're going to have to provide them with all the card details. So unless the banks agree to this not affecting your fraud guarantee, you'd be taking a real risk by using this solution.

For the banks to agree that there would need to be something in the deal for them, to compensate for the loss of branding on their cards and the additional fraud risk.

Re: Plastc Card

#82

Post by pervycreeper »

atourgates wrote: post #41
kenferry wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The prospect of getting away without a wallet is exciting to me! If I could get down to just driver's license, this, and billfold, that'd be pretty cool.

I would pay 2x what they're asking if it worked like it's supposed to, and I could leave everything else behind. But realistically, I think mobile payment systems are much more likely to succeed. Plus, I already have my phone with me anyway, and it doesn't seem too far fetched that it could provide all the info on my driver's license. So with that and widespread adoption of ApplePay (or whatever ends up succeeding in…

> I think mobile payment systems are much more likely to succeed

It's not either/or. Something like this or Coin are essentially interfaces for what will be legacy devices. If it were either/or, then mobile payments would certainly be the better solution.

Re: Plastc Card

#83

Post by ahomescu1 »

Tomdarkness wrote: post #24

It claims to support Chip & PIN (EMV) but I don't see how this works. EMV is designed so that you can't clone a card and in practice is it impractical to attempt to clone a card that uses EMV. The only way I could imagine it would work is if you have the support of the bank that issued the card. However, I doubt any bank would agree to a scheme to allow a 3rd party to generate a clone of an EMV card.

> The only way I could imagine it would work is if you have the support of the bank that issued the card.

At the end of https://www.plastc.com/wallet there's a list of participating banks, so I assume that's exactly how they do it.

Re: Plastc Card

#84

Post by 3327 »

yincrash wrote: post #62

The ridiculous number of features on this card makes it really hard to believe that an unknown startup has the resources to pull it off in the form factor as thin as a credit card. Coin still hasn't gotten there yet (they claim it works at 85% of the locations they visited). Adding more features including wireless charging coils and unknown method for duplicating chip and pin makes me really skeptical that this will…

Great point... Honestly it looks great but the feature set is out of this world. Wireless charging, NFC, proximity. I mean WOW. If they deliver on all of them and are hitting it all those targets lets get them to work on the manned mission to Mars.

Re: Plastc Card

#85

Post by bradfa »

yincrash wrote: post #62

The ridiculous number of features on this card makes it really hard to believe that an unknown startup has the resources to pull it off in the form factor as thin as a credit card. Coin still hasn't gotten there yet (they claim it works at 85% of the locations they visited). Adding more features including wireless charging coils and unknown method for duplicating chip and pin makes me really skeptical that this will…

The microcontroller, smart card interface, eInk screen, bluetooth capability (including antenna), NFC (including antenna), and touch screen all seem reasonable and there isn't anything earth shattering tech wise (but probably a customized asic using off the shelf bits). Connecting this all together on some fiberglass or plastic substrate is hard, and expensive to tool for (I'd expect), but definitely possible.

The interesting bit is how they're fitting the battery and getting anything remotely like reasonable life. Even down in the single digit micro-Amp consumption range (typical for low power microcontrollers plus some resistive touch), a battery small enough to fit inside a credit card will likely only have a few mAh, at best. This will lead to needing to recharge quite often if the bluetooth turns on or eInk screen updates more than once in a blue-moon.

Re: Plastc Card

#87

Post by chrissnell »

jMyles wrote: post #35

What need does this address? Are cards taking up too much room in people's lives? This solution doesn't reduce the height or width of the encumbrance at all, and reduces the depth only by n*.76mm, where n is the number of cards that will be replaced. I don't get it. Also, http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?TheZenOfProgramming

Agreed. Besides the minimal space required by using separate cards, my bank will replace my cards for free whenever they break or the stripes go bad, which happens every six months or so. Does Plastc do that?

Re: Plastc Card

#88

Post by mattmaroon »

jMyles wrote: post #35

What need does this address? Are cards taking up too much room in people's lives? This solution doesn't reduce the height or width of the encumbrance at all, and reduces the depth only by n*.76mm, where n is the number of cards that will be replaced. I don't get it. Also, http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?TheZenOfProgramming

I have a lot of cards. Between gift cards, loyalty cards, and credit cards, I have at least 20-30 that I'd like to carry on me. I end up leaving cards I don't use every day in my car (and am always paranoid about the valet as a result). I use a KeyRing app for loyalty cards, but it's a pain and requires me often typing numbers into things. I often find myself in a Starbucks, realizing I left the Starbucks gift card in my car. Etc.

This would let me get away with a much slimmer wallet and is therefore quite convenient. If it works.

Re: Plastc Card

#89

Post by bravo22 »

dmitrygr wrote: post #80
bravo22 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm calling shenanigans after reading their specs. Here are my reasons: NFC + EMV secure elements are issued by banks and can't be reprogrammed. You can't switch between them on the fly. You can only house "multiple" EMVs if you can by some grace of god magic convince the different banks, and Amex to take your card to their facility and program it with their secure info and then give it back to you. E-ink displays ar…

Now I think this is a difficult-to-implement idea too, but not for the reasons you mentioned 1. eink can be made on flexible plastic and be very thin, and cheap too (see http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/08/esquires-e-ink-infused-ma... ) 2. charge pumps can be made out of discrete components and the largest part is a coil, which can easily be laid flat and thin. You can also charge a ceramic cap (low self discharge) sl…

1. With respect to e-ink on a flexible substrate... it was announced but I've never seen it happen. I've dealt with e-ink fairly recently on two projects. They don't have a flexible design to sell you beyond prototype. and for custom sizes Their MOQ to begin exploring a custom option is 100K units.

2. There is no coil in a charge pump :). They use capacitors and switches. There is no inductor. For a charge pump to drive an eink like screen you need caps of about 10-20uF. I've designed about 3 different boards that drive high-res e-ink screens. You can't get those caps below 1mm at the very best.

3. Are you sure you are getting 0.2mm PCBs? That is only 8mils thick! Most standard PCBs are 62 mils ~ 1.5mm. Can you tell me who these guys are that would do super thin at prototype prices? I would want to use them (no sarcasm).

Minimum IPC thickness for 4 layer board (which is what you need for the EPSON driver to those e-inks) is 12 mils but even at that you'll have mechanical problems with that PCB. Credit card thickness FYI is 30 mils = 0.030".

What I would say to these guys is: "show me a prototype with the appropriate thickness. You have a prototype, right?"

Re: Plastc Card

#90

Post by [deleted] »

dmitrygr wrote: post #80
bravo22 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm calling shenanigans after reading their specs. Here are my reasons: NFC + EMV secure elements are issued by banks and can't be reprogrammed. You can't switch between them on the fly. You can only house "multiple" EMVs if you can by some grace of god magic convince the different banks, and Amex to take your card to their facility and program it with their secure info and then give it back to you. E-ink displays ar…

Now I think this is a difficult-to-implement idea too, but not for the reasons you mentioned 1. eink can be made on flexible plastic and be very thin, and cheap too (see http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/08/esquires-e-ink-infused-ma... ) 2. charge pumps can be made out of discrete components and the largest part is a coil, which can easily be laid flat and thin. You can also charge a ceramic cap (low self discharge) sl…

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