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The Sound So Loud That It Circled the Earth Four Times

nautil.us

81–90 of 111 posts

Re: The Sound So Loud That It Circled the Earth Four Times

#81
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is diffraction the reason why soundwaves could travel around the whole Earth? My previous understanding of diffraction was that obstacles cause waves to propagate in different ways. But the thinning of the atmosphere isn't really an "obstacle." The molecules that soundwaves use to propagate are simply further apart from each other, meaning waves are more likely to disperse and lose energy than to keep traveling or bo…

Sound waves are points of high pressure and points of low pressure. At each point of high pressure the pressure tends to spread uniformly in all directions. Likewise at points of low pressure there is sucking from all directions. Opposite directions cancel, i.e. orthogonal to the wave direction. All in all the sum of all points of pressure creates a moving wavefront. Which naturally bends around obstacles. The earth…

Hey, thank you for taking the time to explain this. I really appreciate it.

I'm having trouble seeing how that explanation would explain the case at hand. Your explanation is likely correct, and I'm probably just thinking about it incorrectly. Would you mind pointing out the flaw in my logic?

In this scenario, a volcano's boom was so loud that it traveled through the atmosphere, all the way around the Earth. Your explanation is perfectly reasonable for thick atmosphere. In thick atmosphere, a soundwave is a pressure differential, and since molecules are densely packed together (since the atmosphere is thick), there's no choice but for the molecules to "slosh around." The high pressure areas will spread to the low pressure areas within the thick atmosphere and create a moving wavefront, exactly like you said.

But as the soundwave travels closer to space, the atmosphere becomes thinner. There are fewer molecules for the soundwave to travel through. That means a pressure differential will have less medium through which to traverse. Since there are fewer molecules, there's more room between them to absorb a pressure differential, right? For example, the reason sound travels so well underwater is because water is extremely dense in comparison to the atmosphere, so less energy is needed to travel an equal distance underwater. Correspondingly, near space where the atmosphere is thin, more energy would be needed to traverse an equal distance. That must mean that as the wavefront approaches space, the wavefront should dissipate. Since more energy is required to travel through less atmosphere, then as the atmosphere approaches zero, the energy required for a wavefront to travel one meter should approach infinity, and that's why it seems like the wavefront should dissipate near the edge of the exosphere.

But in this case, the wavefront didn't dissipate. The volcano's boom kept on going all the way around the Earth, and it was somehow able to maintain its energy. If the soundwave travels as a sphere from its point of origin, then that sphere should have a hard time traveling all the way around Earth, shouldn't it? So it must not be travelling as a sphere, but something else.

You're saying that "something else" is diffraction. I'd like to understand that. How is it that a wavefront of such intensity can approach the exosphere where it should dissipate, yet not dissipate and instead keep traveling all the way around the Earth due to diffraction?

Re: The Sound So Loud That It Circled the Earth Four Times

#82
post #78
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The antipode of Krakatoa is Bogotá, Colombia. I wonder what the news reports from there said at the time?

I would assume that energy follows the path of least resistance. Hence, all the energy went up and out and not down. Notably Bogota sits in a huge valley, so they are also less likely to have been affected by the surface sound wave as well.

If a loud noise was heard there, or nearby, it would likely have been reported...? I didn't get very far searching the web for something like that. One would probably have to go to the Bibliotecas de Bogotá and check newspapers from the day.

Any Colombians reading this...?

Re: The Sound So Loud That It Circled the Earth Four Times

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 220 dB sound is quite strong. As an example, its intensity (in W/solid angle) is 14 orders of magnitude (AKA 100 billion times) highter than the 80 dB people usualy use as a safety limit.

Are you sure? Shouldn't a 140 dB difference in intensity equate to just about 2^14, hence 16384 times stronger?

The decibel scale uses a log_10, not log_2.

Re: The Sound So Loud That It Circled the Earth Four Times

#84
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the article says: "This limit happens to be about 194 decibels for a sound in Earth’s atmosphere." Therefore, wouldn't 220db be like -280°C? EDIT: Somewhat of an answer: 194.09(P) = 1 (ONE) AIR ATMOSPHERE = 14.6962 POUNDS PER SQUARE INCH = 14.6962 P.S.I.= 1 ATM SOUND WAVES DISTORT AND ARE NOW DEFINED AS SHOCK WAVES AND THEY BEGIN TO FOLLOW SHOCK WAVE BEHAVIOR. PARTICLE VELOCITY (BLAST WIND) = 590 FEET / SECOND =…

-280C would be -7 Kelvin, and therefore impossible.

I think that was his point.

Re: The Sound So Loud That It Circled the Earth Four Times

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! My favorite example of this is the sound made by the space shuttle's solid rocket boosters at liftoff. Techies who have seen recordings of shuttle launches generally assume the guttural crackling, popping roar sound they hear is due to a badly adjusted microphone clipping the loud sounds. In fact, this was a physical phenomenon that could be heard in real life, due to the pressure waves physically "clipping" aga…

I had the privilege of watching STS-134 launch from the press site and everyone tells you: "it's loud. louder than loud. you will be surprised by how loud it was." and that still wasn't enough to prepare me. It is loud. It is literally like the sound is clipping, the brapping noise moves through your teeth, it vibrates your clothes, you feel it inside of you. It is incredible, and I was so lucky to have watched it fr…

I was at the STS-135 launch, and both the sound and brightness of the main engines surprised me.

Re: The Sound So Loud That It Circled the Earth Four Times

#86
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of the Saturn V... it's one of the most powerful machines that humans have ever created. It was equipped with five F-1 rocket engines, with each engine producing an absolutely staggering 1,500,000 pounds of thrust; that's a total of 7,500,000 pounds of thrust! Can you imagine being tucked into the small, cramped Command Module, sitting on top of this magnitude of power at lift-off? The whole thing, the techn…

Standing next to the thing makes you feel like an ant. I visit it once and a while and I just think to myself "we did this, this thing blasted off of the face of the earth with humans at the top"

This quote from John Glenn always reminds me just how brave those sons of bitches were;

"As I hurtled through space, one thought kept crossing my mind - every part of this rocket was supplied by the lowest bidder."

Re: The Sound So Loud That It Circled the Earth Four Times

#87
post #40
post #3

Hey, I'm the author of the post (on twitter @aatishb). Thanks for voting it up. Would love to hear your thoughts and constructive feedback. Cheers. (PS the references linked to at the bottom of the post are packed with fascinating information about Krakatoa, for anyone who wants to dig deeper.)

This is one of my favorite things i've read on the internet in recent memory.

Yes! There's a lot of fluff on HN nowadays, but every once in a while we strike gold.

Re: The Sound So Loud That It Circled the Earth Four Times

#88
post #3

Hey, I'm the author of the post (on twitter @aatishb). Thanks for voting it up. Would love to hear your thoughts and constructive feedback. Cheers. (PS the references linked to at the bottom of the post are packed with fascinating information about Krakatoa, for anyone who wants to dig deeper.)

How does something like the Tzar bomb compare in terms of sound pressure? Would the immense volume of ejected material from the volcanic explosion move more air than a nuclear explosion? I'd guess lots of mass (air molecules) is just vaporized in a nuclear explosion, leaving much less mass to create pressure deltas.

"The Tsar Bomba's fireball, about 8 kilometres (5.0 mi) in diameter, was prevented from touching the ground by the shock wave, but nearly reached the 10.5 kilometres (6.5 mi) altitude of the deploying Tu-95 bomber."

I'd love to hear the pilot's thoughts on this. From what I can guess, he couldn't have traveled very far away by the time the explosion occurred. At the very least, he must have felt tremendous turbulence.

I wonder if the scientists knew how close the explosion would be to the aircraft.

Re: The Sound So Loud That It Circled the Earth Four Times

#89
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you think that the sound waves would go in all directions, and be absorbed / redirected at the edges? What you see following the curvature of the Earth is the result of that, and once you factor in the second-order wave reflection, it's still on the order of 1/r^2 isn't it?

Nah, imagine a point on the earth. Now trace rays from that point in every possible direction. All of those rays will eventually lead to space or to the ground, and none will reach the other side of the Earth. Since molecules are physically further apart the higher you go in the atmosphere, it seems unlikely that the energy would be redirected at the edges, only dispersed. That must mean the wave is literally followi…

When I hear "energy dispersed at the edges", I think "lost" (or effectively absorbed), not "reflected back the way it came". I can't think of any obvious mechanism that would lead to significant coherent reflection of sound waves off the upper atmosphere. Similarly, I think a lot of the sound intensity would be absorbed by material on the ground rather than reflected back up. I vote for predominantly 1/r^2 behavior.

[As a physics prof, I probably ought to be doing some sort of calculation to justify that, but I don't have the time. I'm sure it's been analyzed formally somewhere already. Just off the cuff, though, the speed of sound is lower at low temperature, so refraction of a sound wave in the upper atmosphere will tend to bend it outward, away from the Earth. I'm thus imagining that loud sounds may tend to locally push the atmosphere out from the planet a little bit, and I expect that coming back to equilibrium will be a lossy process that doesn't preserve the shape of the wave.]

Re: The Sound So Loud That It Circled the Earth Four Times

#90
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sound waves are points of high pressure and points of low pressure. At each point of high pressure the pressure tends to spread uniformly in all directions. Likewise at points of low pressure there is sucking from all directions. Opposite directions cancel, i.e. orthogonal to the wave direction. All in all the sum of all points of pressure creates a moving wavefront. Which naturally bends around obstacles. The earth…

Hey, thank you for taking the time to explain this. I really appreciate it. I'm having trouble seeing how that explanation would explain the case at hand. Your explanation is likely correct, and I'm probably just thinking about it incorrectly. Would you mind pointing out the flaw in my logic? In this scenario, a volcano's boom was so loud that it traveled through the atmosphere, all the way around the Earth. Your exp…

It is enough to think about the part of the sound wave, a ring, that travels horizontally to see that it bends with the curvature of the earth. The front of the wave will at every point "shoot" some of the energy horizontally forward, and horizontal is at every point tangential to the earth surface. What happens to the sound energy going upwards, well, energy can't disappear. And certainly not into the nothing between the air molecules in thin air. The wavefront going vertically up will eventually push some air molecules away from earth without them hitting any other molecules further out. And then gravity will pull them back. That is in fact a kind of reflection. The speed of sound changes with density, so the wavefront will not move perfectly spherically. That and the gravity induced ripples on the top of the atmosphere will distort and dissipate the energy around the earth in a somewhat complicated pattern. I think. I'm not a physicist.
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