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Earth’s Water Is Older Than the Sun

blogs.discovermagazine.com

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Re: Earth’s Water Is Older Than the Sun

#81

Post by lutusp »

krapp wrote: post #80
_urga wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a difference between the scientific method (our study and understanding of observed uniformity) and the historical method (our study and understanding of events and their explanation, particularly how one event causes another). Furthermore, there's a difference between historical study (did it happen?) and frequentism (how often has it happened?). For example, if we are using words such as "didn't hap…

I don't believe the historical reality of Jesus would give or remove credibility from the Bible. Discovering that the city of Troy really existed doesn't prove that the Iliad and Odyssey happened, either, or that the Greek Gods were real. Jesus could very well have existed, while not being the Son of God. The most crucial claim that the Bible makes is the one that all religions make - which is that the supernatural e…

> I don't believe the historical reality of Jesus would give or remove credibility from the Bible.

It would for Biblical literalists and many fundamentalists. For those people, there's no metaphorical dimension to their beliefs -- the Garden of Eden is a real place, Noah's Ark is hidden somewhere on the slopes of Mt. Ararat, the Shroud of Turin is a legitimate historical artifact, and the Ark of the Covenant ... shall I go on?

> The most crucial claim that the Bible makes is the one that all religions make - which is that the supernatural exists, and takes precedence over the natural world.

Yes, that's true, but there's a world of difference between accepting the existence of a supernatural dimension, and requiring that it leave artifacts in the physical world.

> ... the leap between Jesus being real and Jesus being Christ is pretty much infinite.

Not for True Believers, many of whom have zero capacity for abstraction.

Re: Earth’s Water Is Older Than the Sun

#82

Post by AnimalMuppet »

scott_s wrote: post #75
coldcode wrote: post #59

I've always wondered what percentage of water molecules on the earth have always been water molecules, i.e. since they became H20 how many have been separated by chemical processes and later recombined back into water. How you estimate that is beyond me.

How you estimate it is the third paragraph of the submission: compare the ratios of hydrogen to deuterium (hydrogen with a neutron).

No, that's how you estimate something completely different - the age of the hydrogen atoms that make up the water.

I believe that the GP's point is something like this: It says "the water is older than the sun", but what it really means is "the hydrogen atoms in the water are older than the sun".

Re: Earth’s Water Is Older Than the Sun

#83

Post by scott_s »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #82
scott_s wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How you estimate it is the third paragraph of the submission: compare the ratios of hydrogen to deuterium (hydrogen with a neutron).

No, that's how you estimate something completely different - the age of the hydrogen atoms that make up the water. I believe that the GP's point is something like this: It says "the water is older than the sun", but what it really means is " the hydrogen atoms in the water are older than the sun".

The subsequent paragraphs explain how they go from "age of hydrogen atoms" to "age of the water." If you want more detail than is in the article (which is understandable), then you'll have to refer to the published paper.

Re: Earth’s Water Is Older Than the Sun

#84

Post by andrewflnr »

SergeyDruid wrote: post #56
jk4930 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welteislehre ;)

Fascinating theory regarding the ice, however, regarding the formation: "According to the idea, the solar system had its origin in a gigantic star into which a smaller, dead, waterlogged star fell. This impact caused a huge explosion which flung fragments of the smaller star out into interstellar space where the water condensed and froze into giant blocks of ice. A ring of such blocks formed, which we now call the Mi…

Well obviously if we had, their discovery would have been suppressed by "reactionary astronomers". ;)

Re: Earth’s Water Is Older Than the Sun

#85

Post by andrewflnr »

jk4930 wrote: post #50
SergeyDruid wrote: post #46

Interesting article. Now that I think of it, how comes that in all the (known) universe we have ice or ice blocks (such as comets)? Where from does it originates?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welteislehre ;)

That's hilarious. The Electric Universe of the early 1900s.

Re: Earth’s Water Is Older Than the Sun

#87

Post by Bluestrike2 »

autokad wrote: post #66
tjradcliffe wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Particularly when paired with recent detection of water in the atmosphere of an extra-solar planet: http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/sep/24/water-small-w... Water, water, everywhere... There are people who don't understand what a big deal this is. They think that because this small blue dot happens to have a lot of water, and there is evidence of water elsewhere in the solar system, that water must be common.…

its worth noting that all this article did was show that hydrogen (not water) was present in abundance? Unless I am taking that wrong. and if i am taking it right, a great big 'DUH' as hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe.

Neither article focuses solely on hydrogen. The Discover article is about interstellar ice, while the Guardian article above is about the observation of water vapor:

> Scientists from the University of Maryland used Hubble’s wide field camera to analyse light from HAT-P-11b’s host star through the planet’s atmosphere. They found that light with a wavelength of 1.4 micrometres was absorbed, matching the absorption spectrum of water molecules.

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