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Official Go support

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Re: Official Go support

#81

Post by p0nce »

methodology wrote: post #39
fizixer wrote: post #11

Can someone explain? I'm a big fan of C and python and I've never used Go. My initial impressions from readings were that Go is a better C. But then I came across a Go person who was lamenting that misunderstanding and that Go is python but with better performance. What's it all about? Also even if we compare it to C I don't like the garbage-collection thing at system level. Also what does Go let you do in terms of g…

Go's syntax and semantics seem ad-hoc, hard to remember, and inconsistent, but that's because Go was designed from uses cases and experience by prominent thought leaders such as Rob Pike and Ken Thompson, and Google. For example, sometimes you'll get Unicode code points, but sometimes you'll get bytes of UTF-8. The language was designed to give you the right one in the right case. UTF-8 is coupled with the language b…

> Go's syntax and semantics seem ad-hoc, hard to remember, and inconsistent, but that's because Go was designed from uses cases and experience by prominent thought leaders such as Rob Pike and Ken Thompson, and Google. For example, sometimes you'll get Unicode code points, but sometimes you'll get bytes of UTF-8. The language was designed to give you the right one in the right case. UTF-8 is coupled with the language because it's the most useful choice. Another example is that pointers are automatically dereferenced, but not when you have pointers to pointers, because that's less useful.

How about Go's syntax and semantics seem ad-hoc, hard to remember, and inconsistent because _they are_ ad-hoc, hard to remember and inconsistent? What does your thought leader have to do with your genuine opinion?

Re: Official Go support

#82

Post by pjmlp »

skybrian wrote: post #55
pjmlp wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's unclear what the big missing feature is after lambdas. - Value types, GPGPU, replacing JNI with an improved JNR, reified generics, making Unsafe an official package, modularity, AOT compilation, replacing Hotspot by Graal... Some things discussed here, http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/community/jlss... http://openjdk.java.net/projects/panama/ http://openjdk.java.net/projects/sumatra/ http://openjd…

Yes, there are many more features to come, but they don't look like they will be as important as lambdas (and default methods) for everyday coding. Thanks for the links.

I think you underestimate you important some of those are.

Specially for people doing big data analysis in JVM languages or jumping out of Java to languages like C and C++ for the last performance increase.

Re: Official Go support

#83

Post by abritishguy »

p0nce wrote: post #79
fizixer wrote: post #11

Can someone explain? I'm a big fan of C and python and I've never used Go. My initial impressions from readings were that Go is a better C. But then I came across a Go person who was lamenting that misunderstanding and that Go is python but with better performance. What's it all about? Also even if we compare it to C I don't like the garbage-collection thing at system level. Also what does Go let you do in terms of g…

Go is a slower C[1] with worse syntax and oversold ideas. Stockholm syndrom is a builtin feature that comes with it and not much else. It doesn't provide basic stuff like generics, warnings, or exceptions because the authors want to make a bold statement about how they are in the Right and their potential users are wrong. Meanwhile system software will continues to be built in C and C++ since Go addressed some real p…

your entire comment is crap but the following bit definitely is:

>Go isn't very successful at Google

Go is used heavily for networking and server stuff at Google. The entirety of dl.google.com runs on go (ported from C).

Re: Official Go support

#84

Post by pjmlp »

BinaryHole wrote: post #77
loudmax wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go was originally pitched as a better C, but it seems to be finding a niche as a better Python or possibly a better Java. Go binaries have built-in GC, and Go will probably never reach C levels of performance. There is a lot to like about Go and it is working out very well for a lot of people, but it isn't appropriate for every situation. If you want a better C, better to look into Rust: http://www.rust-lang.org/

Rust???The language which is more complicated than C++??? I have learned Rust almostly, but it is too enormous to replaced the C/C++. If rust can't simplify its concepts and syntax, this language will turn to failure again like D...

There are languages for those who can and those who can't...

Re: Official Go support

#85

Post by jaekwon »

linguafranca wrote: post #61

I'm a bit baffled by Go. The majority of developers I know (across several camps) strongly oppose Go, often to the point of ridiculing it. But then I see Go support being added to everything, usually by a few key people who strongly prefer it. In fact I hear Heroku is internally adopting Go pretty rapidly. So every time I see an announcement like this, I look up whether Go has added some kind of generics yet. And as…

I write Go on a daily basis, and the lack of generics support is really not high on the list of problems that I encounter. I think it's a great tradeoff between C & say Java for the kind of programs that I write -- backend server software with moderate to high performance requirements.

Re: Official Go support

#86

Post by pjmlp »

shadowmint wrote: post #65
pjmlp wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given Android's core team statements at Google IO 2014 about Java being the only official language, with no plans to improve the NDK beyond the existing support, I find it very hard to ever happen. Unless Management forces the team to change their mind, that is.

> no plans to improve the NDK beyond the existing support :| really? Got a link to that? I really thought that they'd finally gotten over themselves and realized that lots of people want and use the NDK.

Yes,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3meJyiYWFw#t=1566

- Java is the official language, that is what the team has invested into

- You can use the NDK for your favorite language, but beware that you are required to use JNI anyway for Android APIs

- Not possible to do any comment regarding Java 8 support.

- Only use Scala for business logic, no tooling support plans

Re: Official Go support

#87

Post by NateDad »

p0nce wrote: post #81
methodology wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go's syntax and semantics seem ad-hoc, hard to remember, and inconsistent, but that's because Go was designed from uses cases and experience by prominent thought leaders such as Rob Pike and Ken Thompson, and Google. For example, sometimes you'll get Unicode code points, but sometimes you'll get bytes of UTF-8. The language was designed to give you the right one in the right case. UTF-8 is coupled with the language b…

> Go's syntax and semantics seem ad-hoc, hard to remember, and inconsistent, but that's because Go was designed from uses cases and experience by prominent thought leaders such as Rob Pike and Ken Thompson, and Google. For example, sometimes you'll get Unicode code points, but sometimes you'll get bytes of UTF-8. The language was designed to give you the right one in the right case. UTF-8 is coupled with the language…

Any language seems inconsistent and has hard to remember syntax for people who are new to it. Unlike most of other languages, you can learn Go in a weekend and get beyond the newbie problems. There was a great article lately about Go's syntax - http://robnapier.net/go-is-a-shop-built-jig

The crux of the matter is that there are inelegant parts to the language because they are usefully inelegant, and when you're actually writing software, useful is better than elegant.

Re: Official Go support

#88

Post by NateDad »

pjmlp wrote: post #84
BinaryHole wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rust???The language which is more complicated than C++??? I have learned Rust almostly, but it is too enormous to replaced the C/C++. If rust can't simplify its concepts and syntax, this language will turn to failure again like D...

There are languages for those who can and those who can't...

The problem with "languages for those who can" is that they get relegated to pet projects, because real teams need code that everyone can understand, not just the "rock stars".

I actually hope that Rust does not become that kind of a language. I think it has a lot going for it, but I do agree that it's a pretty dense language, and that will cause problems in uptake for real projects.

Re: Official Go support

#89

Post by NateDad »

bad_user wrote: post #72
fizixer wrote: post #11

Can someone explain? I'm a big fan of C and python and I've never used Go. My initial impressions from readings were that Go is a better C. But then I came across a Go person who was lamenting that misunderstanding and that Go is python but with better performance. What's it all about? Also even if we compare it to C I don't like the garbage-collection thing at system level. Also what does Go let you do in terms of g…

For me, touting a language as being "Python, but with X" is a big turnoff. I worked for about 2 years in Python and hated most things about it - from the whitespace sensitive indentation that led people to write really long lines and the limited expressive capabilities forcing people to do meta voodoo in their libraries leading to incomprehensible DSLs, to the legacy that sticks like "old-style vs new-style classes",…

Oh, then you'll love Go. It's nothing like python. At least, not like the python you've described above.

Go is actually quite different from python in a lot of ways. Most of the stuff you hate about python does not apply to Go in any way. You can't really make a DSL in Go - there's no operator overloading, no meta classes... no classes at all. The performance of Go is an order of magnitude faster than python and only a few times slower than C. Dependency management and deployment are trivial - Go compiles to a standalone binary with no dependencies (except sometimes libc depending on what you're using).

So... Go is nothing like Python. When people say it is, what they mean is, Go tries to make its syntax really obvious, and make life pleasant for experienced developers writing software in the language.

Re: Official Go support

#90

Post by NateDad »

saidajigumi wrote: post #68
pavanky wrote: post #31

Guys slightly off topic, but please do keep the colorblind people in mind. The colors used for the graphs are so similar that I can not differentiate them.

Tools like Color Oracle[1] are great when checking UI color design for its color safety. Some monitor software also has similar features. E.g. NEC monitors' MultiProfiler tool supports a number of different color vision emulation modes; see the "Color Vision" pane in that app. [1] http://colororacle.org/

Wow, great link, thanks!
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