Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK • Hacker News Board

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#81

Post by tormeh » Tue, Aug 26, 2014, 4:07 PM UTC

protonfish wrote: post #63

poof131 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, a good piece of regulation, but who believes in no regulation? To me, no regulation means no law, which means anarchy. And the only people who want anarchy are the same types of people who would be dead the first day it broke out. But much of the regulation in the US is regulatory capture. We need regulation for the people, not for the companies. Moving in the right direction is a challenge and we need to break…

So I commented on your first paragraph just to make a joke, then I read your second. There is no reason to believe that cross-party unity would solve anything, and plenty to make us think it would make things way worse. Two parties that are friendly and cozy with each other are equivalent to a single party. That will leave US voters with no real choice at the ballot box, and remove the only real repercussion to a pol…

Not really. Friendly relations is a prerequisite for compromise which is a prerequisite for progress. Lots of parties have friendly relations without society collapsing. Your belief is very ignorant and US-centric.

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#82

Post by ehPReth » Tue, Aug 26, 2014, 4:07 PM UTC

Related: http://darkpatterns.org/ - provides a list of common dark patterns with examples

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#83

Post by Wohui » Tue, Aug 26, 2014, 4:08 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #25

rtb wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? There are loads. I can think of several companies that I buy things from because I know I won't get messed with even if the headline price might appear a little higher than their competitors (think EasyJet v.s. RyanAir).

From my relatively small experience I remember EasyJet trying to upsell random crap in a similar way to RyanAir. I might be misremembering though, I haven't flew with any of them since last year. Anyway, I meant why there are no companies with marketing messages that would amount to "we're not going to fuck you over like the Other Company We Can't Name".

I can only think of DuckDuckGo ("we won't track you").

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#84

Post by tormeh » Tue, Aug 26, 2014, 4:08 PM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #68

idlewords wrote: post #8

A good example of beneficial government regulation, for people who refuse to believe such a thing exists. (Another good example is the Internet itself, but it's best to start small)

I disagree. This shouldn't need specific regulations, they should be treated as plain fraud by small claim courts. This just underlines the brokenness of the system.

Courts writing law. What could possibly go wrong with that?

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#85

Post by Someone1234 » Tue, Aug 26, 2014, 4:09 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #25

rtb wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? There are loads. I can think of several companies that I buy things from because I know I won't get messed with even if the headline price might appear a little higher than their competitors (think EasyJet v.s. RyanAir).

From my relatively small experience I remember EasyJet trying to upsell random crap in a similar way to RyanAir. I might be misremembering though, I haven't flew with any of them since last year. Anyway, I meant why there are no companies with marketing messages that would amount to "we're not going to fuck you over like the Other Company We Can't Name".

Last time I flew with EasyJet I didn't get any strong upset. They do try to sell you insurance but the default is "no" and they also sell food/drinks onboard. No real hidden fees or additional charges aside from that. You do need to understand the baggage policy however.

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#86

Post by hyperpape » Tue, Aug 26, 2014, 4:10 PM UTC

I'm surprised how hard it is for me to think of a case where including some extra by default makes sense for both the seller and customer.

My initial reaction was a mixture of happiness about combatting hidden charges and suspicion that it might rule out some reasonable practices. I opt out of the sandwich drink and chips combo at a lot of restaurants, but most other patrons like it. But after mulling it over, I can't think of any of the latter that would apply to online sales.

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#87

Post by pmh » Tue, Aug 26, 2014, 4:10 PM UTC

yardie wrote: post #42

Hey AirBnB. I hope you're listening. Sneaking in service charges and "cleaning fees" is no bueno. I know it's not you doing the later but I hate it when I find an apartment at an appropriate price then good hoodwinked for additional services I don't particularly care for.

FWIW, I recall the latter being included in the nightly rate when I was searching for places. It does switch to an itemized list of expenses when you actually view a property though.

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#88

Post by rmc » Tue, Aug 26, 2014, 4:11 PM UTC

skynetv2 wrote: post #22

when will the US adopt a similar law? Ticketmaster will be first one to go bonkers if this law ever makes it to the US

A lot of these EU laws exclude tickets to music/sports/leisure events/

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#89

Post by rtb » Tue, Aug 26, 2014, 4:11 PM UTC

maccard wrote: post #65

rtb wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? There are loads. I can think of several companies that I buy things from because I know I won't get messed with even if the headline price might appear a little higher than their competitors (think EasyJet v.s. RyanAir).

Ryanair don't do that. The price they advertise at the flight choice time is the price you pay. THey then try shove extras down your throat, but you're not obligated to buy travel insurance, rent a car, use their jet ski etc .

Sorry, you're right -- RyanAir's headline price is actually achievable these days (if you manage to get past all the Dark UX practices, some of which were called out as examples in the OP). I was thinking of a few years ago, before the EU had to pass a law specifically banning their advertising practices, much like the law currently under discussion.

In my experience, EasyJet do offer you lots of low value "extras", but they do not try to trick you into taking them in the same way as RyanAir do (did?).

So I stand by my example, although perhaps it's not the best one available :-)

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#90

Post by Crito » Tue, Aug 26, 2014, 4:12 PM UTC

dzhiurgis wrote: post #53

Padding wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this basically what Amazon does? I've always felt very comfortable and safe when pushing the buy button on their site.

No they don't: * Can't get shipping charges before the last step (after selecting the credit card which implies I am about to pay) * Sneaking in Prime * Fucked up search

The first I agree with, but I'm not sure what you mean by "Sneaking in Prime".

"Fucked up search" is almost certainly not deliberate. I suspect it costs them a good deal of sales when people cannot find what they wanted to purchase. I don't think you can call that an 'dark pattern' unless it is deliberate and they are working some sort of angle.