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Diversity and Startups

blog.ycombinator.com

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81–90 of 218 posts

Re: Diversity and Startups

#81

Post by a-t-shirt »

thomasfromcdnjs wrote: post #51
Castlereagh wrote: post #29

People who are not white males... I know it's hard to believe, but relative to their proportion in the workforce white males are slightly under represented in tech. Additionally, people of color are dramatically over represented. It's easy to march under the banner of "men in tech shouldn't act like sexist jerks"—what kind of sexist jerk could object to that?—but the more accurate slogan "we need many fewer Asian mal…

Just hi-hacking this comment to talk about the same line. Everybody needs to stop with this "white-male" nonsense, which is inherently racist. There is much cultural diversity among what is considered "white" and that is painfully obvious. The "black" American guy and "white" American gal might have more in common with each other than the "white" Italian working in the cubicle next door. This also applies to the vast…

At least one moderator here (with the username "dang") has blocked discussion of the fact that white men are actually underrepresented in tech.

For example, take a look at this thread from about three months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7662013

He labeled the submission itself a "troll" (and locked it) because it generated what he called "high-indignation, low-information" responses. Read the responses and decide for yourself. It's pretty clear that "high-indignation, low-information" just means "doesn't support my ideology".

> it would be healthier if people stop this self persecution

If only it were self-persecution.

It's actually persecuting other (infinitely less powerful) white men and boys by implying "You—as a member of the group who will be most negatively affected by the policies we are discussing—are not allowed to object."

Re: Diversity and Startups

#82

Post by king_jester »

kika wrote: post #39

Let's say I have a magic wand which will make all -isms go away in one waving. I waved, -isms went away and now what? Where do I hire skilled black female CoffeeScript developers? How many of them do actually exist? I'm insider/outsider - I live in the US now, in Bay Area, but I went to school in the country which doesn't even exist anymore, while my daughter goes to the one of the best middle schools around here. An…

> Let's say I have a magic wand which will make all -isms go away in one waving. I waved, -isms went away and now what? Where do I hire skilled black female CoffeeScript developers?

This is a bit strange to say. If there were less barriers for people in tech, there would be more of different kinds of people in tech. Indeed, combating sexism and racism in tech should, in time, lead to more participation from people who currently are not in or leave tech quickly.

> So it's not just her, there's a solid group of (mostly white though) girls interested in math and other similar topics. Where these girls disappear later?

There are a variety of reasons why women do not pursue STEM that may happen at various times of their lives. If you want to know why that happens, you'd best look for the written experiences of woman and the reasons why they left. There's been quite a lot of blogging by some of those women on the subject.

> I understand that I'll learn this in a hard way later, but if there're valid theories out there, may be I'd be able to prevent her from losing interest in math, special video effects, photography, optics, etc.

Being supportive is great, but keep in mind you won't have the same experience as your child, esp. considering they are living in a different time and with a different gender. There ultimately may be, in fact, nothing you can do. But in this case your best bet is to read about the experience women have faced in STEM and share those resources.

> Something tells me it's not just our (white tech male population) sexism, it's a problem rooted deeper.

Sexism is both interpersonal and institutional, the deeper roots of the problem is still sexism and misogyny, among other things.

Re: Diversity and Startups

#83

Post by [deleted] »

argonaut wrote: post #52
staunch wrote: post #41

What about class? Ivy League Parents -> Private School -> SAT tutoring -> Ivy League College -> Investment by Ivy League VC -> Acquired by Ivy League Tech Company vs Poor parents -> Shitty Public School -> High School Drop Out -> Programmer at Ivy League Tech Company (maybe) There's a reason most of the big tech companies are from Ivy League graduates. And you can't ignore how many successful startups only happened b…

Minor nit, which is that all the top CS (and engineering, for that matter) schools are not Ivy League schools: MIT, Berkeley, Stanford, CMU. And I've never heard of top tech companies being referred to as Ivy League tech companies. But your point is still valid when you talk about "top schools."

[deleted]

Re: Diversity and Startups

#84

Post by incision »

I appreciate that this post takes the time to acknowledge a few specific problems along with suggestions for actions.

I haven't seen much of the former in diversity releases - just 'diversity' on its own as if the word alone represents both every possible problem and validates the proposed solutions.

It's hard to put into few words, but as I think of it, diversity is neutral - it's just a measure and the goal shouldn't be dragging it one way or another just reducing friction.

EDIT: To be clear, when I refer to friction I mean any barriers beyond individual control which prevent people, whoever, wherever from entering and/or excelling in the field.

Re: Diversity and Startups

#85

Post by dpeck »

jbigelow76 wrote: post #78
dpeck wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ivy League is an athletic conference, or at best a collection of prestigious schools from the north east: The eight institutions are Brown University, Columbia University, Cornell University, Dartmouth College, Harvard University, Princeton University, the University of Pennsylvania, and Yale University. I don't think this is what you mean.

I think the colloquialism of "Ivy League" as a psuedo pedigree or class distinction has superseded the actual athletic conference definition. I knew exactly what the OP was driving at even if the details were off, and only after you point out that Ivy League is an athletic conference did it occur to me that that would be where the current colloquialism came from.

even without it being related to the athletic conference, and refering only to those schools, that is for the most part a completely different set of schools than the ones whose alumni are involved in the startup/VC game.

Words mean things.

Re: Diversity and Startups

#86

Post by a-t-shirt »

Permit wrote: post #79
staunch wrote: post #41

What about class? Ivy League Parents -> Private School -> SAT tutoring -> Ivy League College -> Investment by Ivy League VC -> Acquired by Ivy League Tech Company vs Poor parents -> Shitty Public School -> High School Drop Out -> Programmer at Ivy League Tech Company (maybe) There's a reason most of the big tech companies are from Ivy League graduates. And you can't ignore how many successful startups only happened b…

I'm not sure how this is releveant; how can YCombinator influence this? The disparity in education has already taken full effect by the time people apply to YC. It's great that YC has taken steps towards gender equality, but I don't think they have much of a say when it comes to inequality in education.

Their steps toward their vision of gender equality make it even more difficult for men who didn't attend a prestigious university to be accepted.

Re: Diversity and Startups

#87

Post by king_jester »

thomasfromcdnjs wrote: post #51
Castlereagh wrote: post #29

People who are not white males... I know it's hard to believe, but relative to their proportion in the workforce white males are slightly under represented in tech. Additionally, people of color are dramatically over represented. It's easy to march under the banner of "men in tech shouldn't act like sexist jerks"—what kind of sexist jerk could object to that?—but the more accurate slogan "we need many fewer Asian mal…

Just hi-hacking this comment to talk about the same line. Everybody needs to stop with this "white-male" nonsense, which is inherently racist. There is much cultural diversity among what is considered "white" and that is painfully obvious. The "black" American guy and "white" American gal might have more in common with each other than the "white" Italian working in the cubicle next door. This also applies to the vast…

> Everybody needs to stop with this "white-male" nonsense, which is inherently racist. There is much cultural diversity among what is considered "white" and that is painfully obvious. The "black" American guy and "white" American gal might have more in common with each other than the "white" Italian working in the cubicle next door. This also applies to the vast spectrum of "Asians" whose cultures differ significantly.

Talking about white people or even generalizing about white people is not racist. There is no institutional and systemic power backing discrimination against white people based on their skin color. On the basis of being white, you do not suffer increased chances of incarceration, lack of access to education, worse job opportunities, and so on.

White identity is not the same as Asian identity and the issues facing Asian people do relate to racism. It is a false equivalence to compare whiteness to being Asian.

> Completely unnecessary and I think it would be healthier if people stop this self persecution. (Using the same logic, maybe I can say this with authority because I am an indigenous Australian =D)

There is nothing wrong with a little self awareness of being a member of the dominant social group in tech.

Re: Diversity and Startups

#88

Post by minimaxir »

dang wrote: post #59
minimaxir wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About a year ago, a friend wrote a good post about diversity in hackathons which was submitted to HN and hit #2 quickly, then dropped down to the second page in an instant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6495950 Not many people commented on it. I believe the flame-war detector only takes significant effect when # comments > # points, which is a pretty good heuristic for a flame war that has gone out of control.

For what it's worth at this late date, that post set off the voting ring detector. No users flagged it and no moderator moderated it.

That clarifies that mystery :P. Thanks!

Re: Diversity and Startups

#89

Post by king_jester »

tomjen3 wrote: post #33
epistasis wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the ways that people slow down progress, in startups or in society, is by resisting unreasonably at every step in a series of steps in an argument. If you want to debate that, that's fine, just do it somewhere else. It appears that Y Combinator has accepted the ample evidence of the presence of sexism in tech, and is focusing discussion away from existence, and towards the next necessary steps. Rehashing the e…

>One of the ways that people slow down progress, in startups or in society, is by resisting unreasonably at every step in a series of steps in an argument. They key here is _unreasonable_. I do not believe it unreasonable to demand evidence to the extend and nature of sexism in tech (as I have seen no formal study on it at all). Frankly all I am seeing here are the very methods described in What you can't say being u…

> I do not believe it unreasonable to demand evidence to the extend and nature of sexism in tech (as I have seen no formal study on it at all).

There have been so many studies, blog posts, and anecdotes about sexism in tech. Basic searching for this stuff will get you all the relevant info you need, nobody is obligated to walk you through it if you aren't aware.

Re: Diversity and Startups

#90

Post by rmason »

argonaut wrote: post #63

One objection I have is with hackathons. From my observations most hackathons aren't particularly inclusive environments - they may do more harm than good. Examples include the intense focus on competition and prizes (I didn't think it was a good idea for YC Hacks to explicitly advertise the prize of getting an interview), the fact that many hackathons now have applications processes where more applicants are rejecte…

Most but not all hackathons. I founded a hackathon and we made it a priority in our first planning meeting that women would be made to feel welcome.

I got up on stage at the event and said specifically what was acceptable and not acceptable behavior. I think if more hackathons did that there wouldn't be all the atrocities that I read about in Techcrunch.

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