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The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

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Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#81

Post by psykotic »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #79
psykotic wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cool software that makes money (game development) doesn't pay very much. Your thinking must be stuck in the last century. By the time I entered the game industry 13 years ago, salaries were already on par with the software industry at large. My first full-time position was in 2003 and paid $85,000/year. Based on the numbers I've seen, game programmers currently earn significantly more than web developers with an eq…

What are your thoughts on this alternate hypothesis? Rather than the whole gamedev industry being on par, perhaps only RAD's salaries have been. I know your personal network is extremely large. If you have a lot of knowledge about the topic of gamedev salaries, I'd love to hear more. Since talking about salaries with colleagues is typically verboten, I'm curious how you collected your salary datapoints and what your…

I'm not using my own salary history as a benchmark. The IGDA salary surveys and my exposure to a range of developers seem to bear out my remarks. As for how I know salaries outside of public surveys, I am on a private forum where people talk about both their own salaries anonymously and what their companies typically offer when hiring.

I appended a paragraph to the original post explaining the effect of coolness on first-job salaries. I do think it plays a role there. Companies like EA are notorious for using fresh graduates as a revolving source of underpaid labor. As for long hours, my impression (here I have no survey data) is that it's become much rarer.

I think what happened economically is that by the early to mid 2000s, the main technical challenges of game development had almost nothing to do with anything specific to games. Compare that to the impression of game development you might have gotten from reading Abrash's articles on Quake. Because of that, good game programmers were able to easily get jobs outside of games, and good non-game programmers were able to quickly get up to speed on gamedev specifics. Hence wages equalized. That also explains why wages for designer and artists are still relatively lower.

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#82

Post by NAFV_P »

FiloSottile wrote: post #33
codexon wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't feel sorry for malware writers. They are not oppressed and deserve what they got. And this guy also stole people's software keys. If they were talented coders, they could've found less destructive ways to make money. But he decided to go the greedy route.

> If they were talented coders, they could've found less destructive ways to make money. But he decided to go the greedy route. Let me guess: you are a US citizen, or anyway live in a country where developer positions abound. Well, not everyone is. Some people live in small towns where the cool programming positions are adapting invoice management software for small businesses. Also this was before Freelancer.com, be…

> Don't judge if people are oppressed (or better, repressed) if you have never been, please, either because at that age YOU had the occasions or guidance, or because you hadn't that curiosity or talent.

I'm about four years older than Gembe, when I was 18 I endured:

Threats of violence, death threats, constant insults (such as 'paedophile', 'baby rapist', 'retard', 'cunt', 'fat cunt', 'queer'), people spitting in my face, prank calls at two in the morning, false accusations (eg. being accused of threatening someone, said someone would regularly say to me "I'm going to kick your fucking head in"). Being called 'cunt' every other day tends to become a drag after twenty years or so.

My 33rd birthday is fast approaching, I still have trouble with other members of society treating me poorly. When most people go to work, they don't expect to put up with threats of being punched in the face. When you complain about your treatment at work, you don't expect to lose your job a week later.

I've spent the last two years learning programming, ten years ago I decided to learn a load of maths (my education wasn't that good). On both occasions the response often was "stick to what you are capable of" or "go and learn something useful instead". Or how about the time someone at the Job Centre decided I was incapable of filling out forms by myself, then filled it on my behalf without my permission, complete with a few silly spelling mistakes.

Gembe sounds to me like he has had it easy.

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#83

Post by k00pa »

ahuth wrote: post #39
balls187 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The HL2 team rewrote major portions of the Source Engine in response to the hack.

Why would the leak cause major portions of the engine to need to be rewritten? Seems more likely that it was a convenient excuse.

Major parts needed rewrite to not make it so easy to develop cheats for the game.

If the hackers would have the source, they would not even need to reverse engineer the engine to build their aimbots/wallhacks.

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#84

Post by sillysaurus3 »

psykotic wrote: post #81
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are your thoughts on this alternate hypothesis? Rather than the whole gamedev industry being on par, perhaps only RAD's salaries have been. I know your personal network is extremely large. If you have a lot of knowledge about the topic of gamedev salaries, I'd love to hear more. Since talking about salaries with colleagues is typically verboten, I'm curious how you collected your salary datapoints and what your…

I'm not using my own salary history as a benchmark. The IGDA salary surveys and my exposure to a range of developers seem to bear out my remarks. As for how I know salaries outside of public surveys, I am on a private forum where people talk about both their own salaries anonymously and what their companies typically offer when hiring. I appended a paragraph to the original post explaining the effect of coolness on f…

Thank you for your insight. I'm trying to track down the surveys you mention. Is this one? http://www.gamecareerguide.com/features/1108/game_developer_...

It's from 2012. Average salary for devs with less than 3 years experience: $66,116. The average for 6+ years experience is $103,000.

Here's a survey from 2001 with 1,801 datapoints: http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20010715/Salary_Survey_200...

Average salary in 2001 for the same position: about $55,000. For those with 6+ years, it was about $70,000.

It seems like a webdev outside the Valley who has 6+ years experience should be making more than $103,000.

If those surveys are to be trusted, it sounds like your $85k starting salary was about 50% higher than average at the time.

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#85

Post by psykotic »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #84
psykotic wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not using my own salary history as a benchmark. The IGDA salary surveys and my exposure to a range of developers seem to bear out my remarks. As for how I know salaries outside of public surveys, I am on a private forum where people talk about both their own salaries anonymously and what their companies typically offer when hiring. I appended a paragraph to the original post explaining the effect of coolness on f…

Thank you for your insight. I'm trying to track down the surveys you mention. Is this one? http://www.gamecareerguide.com/features/1108/game_developer_... It's from 2012. Average salary for devs with less than 3 years experience: $66,116. The average for 6+ years experience is $103,000. Here's a survey from 2001 with 1,801 datapoints: http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20010715/Salary_Survey_200... Average salary in 2…

From what I know, the three major salary surveys are from IGDA, Developer and GDMag (now defunct). Here's the summary of GDMag's 2012 survey: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/189893/Industry_in_flux_W...

It puts the US average at $84,337. The 2012 averages I can find for web developers are significantly less than that ($60,000-80,000). Part of the problem with these comparisons is that "web developer" is a much wider category.

> It seems like a webdev outside the Valley who has 6+ years experience should be making more than $103,000.

I don't see why, unless you are in a special high-demand bracket of web development. That's a very respectable salary in most areas!

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#86

Post by zaroth »

deftnerd wrote: post #2

It's stories like these that's inspired me to start up a new project at oppressed.me. I'm trying to compile a list of hackers and hacktivists that have been imprisoned in order to let the internet easily send them correspondence. I'm also going to ask publishers for donations of older copies of technical books to send them. A lot of hackers are just kids that make a stupid mistake. During their time in jail, their sk…

I think the system did quite well with Gembe all things considered...

  The judge sentenced him to two years' probation, citing his
  rough childhood and the way he had worked to turn his life
  around as considerations when it came to deciding on the
  relatively lenient punishment.
The arrest at gunpoint sounds quite dramatic, but then again they let him stop for coffee and a cigarette on the way out, so this is not the typical SWAT. They did offer that it was a concurrent raid along with Sven Jaschan (author of Sasser) and they thought there was potential for a tip-off.

I was cringing the whole time reading about the interrogation. I can imagine this whole thing would have ended so much worse for Gembe if he had actually gone for that job interview. Just try and compare Gembe to Weev, you might start pining for good ol Schönau im Schwarzwald.

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#87

Post by vertex-four »

ekianjo wrote: post #74
DerpDerpDerp wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part of inviting a criminal you've gathered significant recorded evidence against (eg, their own telephone confession) to a place you can arrest him do you think violates due process?

Well, lying about your true intent. It's not like he knew he was going to be arrested.

Police in the US don't have to tell you what they're doing up until the point they decide to exercise their power (i.e. searches or arrests) either, last time I checked. They can ask you to go somewhere and you can voluntarily comply or choose not to.

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#88

Post by rebugger »

phaus wrote: post #63

Interesting story, terrible article. Valve has always followed the "when its ready" release model. The article makes it sound like there was a huge conspiracy to keep valve's ineptness a secret, else Gabe would have no alternative than to commit ritual suicide.

Furthermore "...to find his bed surrounded by police officers. Automatic weapons were pointing at his head..." - that doesn't sound like Germany. Guns are only drawn if you are visibly armed.

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#89

Post by jakejake »

FiloSottile wrote: post #56
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people live in small towns where the cool programming positions are adapting invoice management software for small businesses. That's a legitimate programming job. Cool software rarely makes money. Cool software that makes money (game development) doesn't pay very much. Then you stumble upon a IRC channel and a world of challenges opens in front of you. A book is far more challenging, because in an IRC channel y…

I think I should stress I'm speaking about young people. Peer recognition is critical when starting at that age. Also careful consideration is not exactly common. I'm in no way alleging that it is a reasonable way to go for a mature professional, but I acknowledge the charm it has for the young high-schooler that is being "taught" Excel at school and being told not to fiddle with that weird black terminal. These boys…

It's a kinda strange thing. Before the digital age kids like myself just did not have access to many things that could get them into so much trouble. I caused my share of mischief when I was a kid, just like most boys will do. Probably the worst tools I had at my disposal were eggs or snowballs to throw at cars. The opportunity for me to reach out from my bedroom and cause damage to a multi-national corporation or government just was not available to me or anybody at the time. It's hard to imagine what I could have done as a kid to even get the attention of the FBI, let alone have them trying to trap me in a sting operation. Kids today have a lot more ways to do some serious damage and get themselves into real trouble.

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#90

Post by ago »

zacharycohn wrote: post #51
ago wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked programming fire alarm systems for a while, embedded device programming and test automation. Now I started doing realtime graphics in Bejing. Working on using the Kinect to do gesture input on presentations on really big screens. Like Powerpoint on steroids.

The article didn't have any information on the person you passed the source code to. I assume they tried to figure out who it was? What happened to them?

I think I already confirmed it on reddit after someone else said it. I shared it with SourceX from myg0t and he shared it with other people inside myg0t. It was really stupid to do ... yay hindsight :(
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