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Amazon Flexes Its Muscles in Fight Against Publishers

bits.blogs.nytimes.com

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Re: Amazon Flexes Its Muscles in Fight Against Publishers

#81

Post by richdougherty »

justizin wrote: post #79
incision wrote: post #52

Honest questions here... What is supposed to happen here? This article and each of the others linked don't offer much beyond jabs at Amazon. As far as I can tell, publishers are unhappy with Amazon - period. Two years ago the hot news was about Amazon pricing books too low [1]. Now at least part of the complaint is that Amazon isn't discounting enough and allowing prices to approach list price - which I assume is set…

to be clear, the lawsuit was against apple and the publishers, who were accused of price fixing by refusing to participate in under-pricing books, but also refusing to price ebooks as high as ~$25. it was a really odd application of antitrust law at the time, since Amazon is the one with monopoly power, and price fixing typically means competitors agreeing to price things higher than the market would otherwise bear.…

I have the different view: that the Apple/publisher case is a pretty straightforward case of a price fixing conspiracy.

Publishers are certainly allowed to, as you put it, "refuse to participate in under-pricing books". The problem occurs when they decide to act in concert.

I agree with your points about DOJ and the tech industry, and maybe there's something that needs to be done about Amazon right now. I'm not sure. But definitely the wrong thing to do would be to allow a cartel of publishers have any influence over the price structure of the market.

Re: Amazon Flexes Its Muscles in Fight Against Publishers

#82

Post by chrismcb »

eridius wrote: post #70
revelation wrote: post #23

These articles can really go either way, but NYT seems to continuously go the publisher side. Theres not a single Amazon statement in this article. Remember that the majority of publishers just recently colluded with Apple to essentially fuck over Amazon. Why would we afford them the presumption of goodwill here?

> Remember that the majority of publishers just recently colluded with Apple to essentially fuck over Amazon. Well, that's certainly how the Justice Department chose to see it. That doesn't make that statement the objective truth. I still don't see how anyone can say with a straight face that the new entrant in a market is "fuck[ing] over" the dominant player. Especially when countless economists have weighed in sayi…

"corrective measures employed by Apple" what were the measures and what were they correcting? And how did the Justice Department get it wrong. Apple colluded with the publishers to set the price, and forced Amazon to sell for the same price. With mainly the people being screwed (well in some cases the publishers actually lost money too) Unfortunately the corrective measures taken SINCE the ruling having really made much of a change.

Re: Amazon Flexes Its Muscles in Fight Against Publishers

#83

Post by waterlesscloud »

dragonwriter wrote: post #8
seacious wrote: post #5

What practice of Hachette is amazon objecting to? The article doesn't specify the cause of the conflict.

> What practice of Hachette is amazon objecting to? Amazon isn't publicly objecting to any Hachette practice. Per the earlier article on the dispute linked from the source article, [1] Amazon is seeking more favorable contract terms with Hachette (and neither side seems to be disclosing what particular terms are at issue), and is working to discourage sales of their books -- and promote alternatives to people specifi…

Yes, of course the publishers wouldn't want authors to see the details of their Amazon deals.

Re: Amazon Flexes Its Muscles in Fight Against Publishers

#85

Post by chris_mahan »

Why don't the publishers make it easy to buy books from them, instead of all this rigamarole about rights and regions? I want to go to your website, pay with a credit card, and you ship it to me, anywhere in the world, and fast.

No, instead, I go to a local bookstore, they don't have it.

I go to Amazon, they have it. I order it, two days later it's at my door, for 30% off the price on the back of the book.

So everybody does the same as me, and now Amazon is the 800-lbs gorilla in the room, throwing its weight around, and you're complaining?

You had the opportunity, 10 years ago, to kill Amazon, and you didn't, because you wanted to keep charging us more for less service.

Tough.

Re: Amazon Flexes Its Muscles in Fight Against Publishers

#86

Post by chris_mahan »

001sky wrote: post #41
paulgb wrote: post #24

> The paperback edition of Brad Stone’s “The Everything Store: Jeff Bezos and the Age of Amazon” — a book Amazon disliked so much it denounced it — is suddenly listed as “unavailable.” I like a conspiracy theory as much as the next guy but couldn't the book just be... unavailable? If they wanted to impede its distribution why are they still selling the Kindle, Hardcover, and Audio versions?

"For several months, Amazon has been quietly discouraging the sales of Hachette’s physical books by several techniques — cutting the customer’s discount so the book approaches list price; taking weeks to ship the book; suggesting prospective customers buy other books instead; and increasing the discount for the Kindle version." There is no physical shortage.

Wait, you're telling me that the book is available elsewhere (like the barnes & noble website), but not amazon? What's stopping average joe to go to a different seller and buy it there?

If Amazon doesn't want to sell something, even a book, that is entirely their right.

Re: Amazon Flexes Its Muscles in Fight Against Publishers

#87

Post by dublinben »

dragonwriter wrote: post #30
smackfu wrote: post #12

The main reason this is getting publicity is that the authors are getting punished but they have no power. Otherwise it's just a standard retailer/supplier conflict. Also, note that Hachette is one of the publishers involved in the e-book suit who settled, so not exactly a great history with Amazon.

Another major reason is suggested in the earlier article -- Amazon's market power in the book retailing business (particularly if online book retailing is regarded as a distinct market) is so great that a lot of commenters have raised antitrust concerns about that power being applied as leverage for better terms in the e-book market (developing market power isn't illegal by itself, but applying it to use dominance in…

The publishers are completely free to sell DRM-free ebooks directly to consumers that can be enjoyed on their Kindle or whatever. They insist on relying on greedy middlemen like Apple and are shocked when Amazon doesn't fall in line.

I have no sympathy for complaining publishers that refuse to actually circumvent these "bully" distributors.

Re: Amazon Flexes Its Muscles in Fight Against Publishers

#89

Post by 001sky »

chris_mahan wrote: post #86
001sky wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"For several months, Amazon has been quietly discouraging the sales of Hachette’s physical books by several techniques — cutting the customer’s discount so the book approaches list price; taking weeks to ship the book; suggesting prospective customers buy other books instead; and increasing the discount for the Kindle version." There is no physical shortage.

Wait, you're telling me that the book is available elsewhere (like the barnes & noble website), but not amazon? What's stopping average joe to go to a different seller and buy it there? If Amazon doesn't want to sell something, even a book, that is entirely their right.

Which of the 5 words don't you understand? "There is no physical shortage".

Re: Amazon Flexes Its Muscles in Fight Against Publishers

#90

Post by waveman2 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #46
paulgb wrote: post #24

> The paperback edition of Brad Stone’s “The Everything Store: Jeff Bezos and the Age of Amazon” — a book Amazon disliked so much it denounced it — is suddenly listed as “unavailable.” I like a conspiracy theory as much as the next guy but couldn't the book just be... unavailable? If they wanted to impede its distribution why are they still selling the Kindle, Hardcover, and Audio versions?

> I like a conspiracy theory as much as the next guy but couldn't the book just be... unavailable? Its unavailable in the sense that Amazon doesn't make it available -- so it is, literally, unavailable from Amazon . Strictly speaking, this is not inaccurate, it just doesn't mean what people who trust Amazon's comprehensiveness are likely to think it means, as its not unavailable from the publisher, which is why its a…

It's unavailable in the sense that you can actually buy it now. I just did. That is, in the sense that it is available. And right now the claim made is demonstrably false, if not a deliberate lie.

Seriously people you need to confirm your facts. Not everything you read in the papers is true.

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