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How Wall Street recruits so many Ivy League grads

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Re: How Wall Street recruits so many Ivy League grads

#81
post #4

Anyone have thoughts on this gem? > I talked to one guy who's a former Goldman Sachs guy who left to go to the tech industry who said the adage in the tech world now is "be wary when the pretty people show up."

I have never heard it put quite that way before, but I know that if I ever see someone in a suit, I start distributing more resumes. The same goes for an all-hands meeting scheduled for Friday afternoon.

The beautiful people just don't talk to nerds without some compelling reason to do so. (And they don't consider new episodes of Doctor Who to be compelling.) So when they do, you have to find the hidden motive. If you can't find it, the motive is to screw you somehow.

In my anecdotal experience, if they talk to me at all, it's usually to say some subset of the following: "We lost the contract, sold/merged the company, and now your office will be closed down, all of you are fired, and whatever work it is that you do is getting tossed in the trash. You get no severance pay. If you had options, they aren't worth anything as of this moment. If they are worth something, the IRS will want 300% of whatever you get from them because that way the company can save 0.5% on its own taxes. Vacation will not be paid out, since you don't have any. Remember how we merged it with sick leave and trimmed 33% to make it flexible leave? You will be getting your COBRA packets shortly, giving you the option to pay $4000 a month out of the $600 you will get from unemployment to continue having health insurance in lieu of food and/or shelter. Have a good weekend."

So yeah, be very, very wary. In fact, you might just want to prep for the bad-news meeting by stashing a current copy of the employee emergency contact list in your car and walking in with an already-active audio recorder.

Re: How Wall Street recruits so many Ivy League grads

#82
post #23

Investment banking gets a pretty bad reputation in the media, and there are many misconceptions about the industry. I don't think this article was terrible, but I do disagree with a few of the points. For the record, I'm an undergraduate student at a non-Ivy but huge feeder into investment banks. > They're going because they hate risk and are terrified about what to do next and Wall Street has figured out a way to ca…

>"And although I don't plan on working for an investment bank, I hate to see the career ridiculed by misconceptions."

Serious question; how old were you in 2008, or 1989?

How well informed are you about BCCI, GS, Lehman, BofA, Wachovia... LIBOR etc...

There is MUCH to ridicule, condemn and convict.

Re: How Wall Street recruits so many Ivy League grads

#83
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to spend a lot of time working on each point within your post. However I do think you discount the value that finance brings. Access to capital and efficient distribution of capital are tremendously powerful. Describing what finance does as just pushing paper is like describing the startup community as just writing useless code.

And I want to make it clear I don't consider Facebook/Google/Twitter as vital as GM/Boeing/Tesla/SpaceX. I don't care if Facebook/Google/Twitter don't end up with top brains. But I am concerned GM/Boeing/Tesla/SpaceX are not getting the top brains as much as they should.

Why do you think those particular companies deserve a larger share of good employees.

Boeing hasn't been innovative in a while now. They make most of their money off of sales of their older models and defense contracts.

GM isn't doing so well these days and has moved most of their manufacturing overseas. Not exactly a win for the American economy. Consumer automobiles isn't exactly a growth industry right now.

Tesla and SpaceX are promising, but still small. I don't think they have that much trouble hiring. Due to their reputation and high compensation levels, they can easily compete with Wall Street for the best and brightest engineering minds.

So the question remains, why these particular companies? Are you really just talking about old-school heavy industry companies in general? Why not other sectors, like electronics, medicine, and IT?

Re: How Wall Street recruits so many Ivy League grads

#84
> They're going because they hate risk and are terrified about what to do next and Wall Street has figured out a way to calm their anxieties.

Isn't it a bit far-stretched. It's clear to me they're going because it's by far the most lucrative path. It's not surprising that 1/3 of ivy grads are looking to make as much money as they can.

> Being a young banker seems like an incredibly miserable existence.

When I graduated, many of my school mates went to work in the financial industry (not investment banking though) and they didn't look miserable to me. Retrospectively, it looks it was a good career choice.

This article sounds biased. It'd be interesting to have a more objective account about this type of jobs.

Re: How Wall Street recruits so many Ivy League grads

#85
post #19
post #12

It's like so obvious, if you've spent any time at all working for one of these places. Or heck, even interviewing with them. Here's what it all boils down to: aside the quants, the genuinely alpha traders, and few other wonky actuarial types, most of the grunts (you know: the "analysts"... and the vast majority of the IT types) don't seem to be there, or to have any other propelling motive in life, other than: (1) th…

BTW: the point about drug testing applies to the handful of cool, geeky, "Agile" companies that adhere to this ridiculous practice, too. In fact, a certain company by the name of Pivotal Labs comes to mind. So -- anyone from Pivotal reading this? You're more than welcome to share your true thoughts about your employer's urine fetish, here and now -- safely and anonymously! On the off chance that upper management migh…

Taking test-driven development too literally?

Re: How Wall Street recruits so many Ivy League grads

#86
post #63
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These are kids really really smart, socially adjusted (enough to be accepted by Ivy League), and hard working. If they entered science/medicine/engineering/etc, they would've added great positive impact. I agree that students may be able to have a stronger impact as a doctor, scientist, etc. But this is more a criticism of K-12 education, not the wall street industry! I've never heard of a high schooler thinking "s…

> But this is more a criticism of K-12 education, not the wall street industry! No matter if K-12 system is doing its job or not, Ivy League should not be sweeping up a their of Ivy League graduates. > By suggesting that investment banks are "printing money," you've shown that you aren't well-informed on the industry. Yes I apologize. I was just venting my frustration. But are the finance companies THAT important tha…

Well other professions need to pay more then - unless you think rigidly planned economies are good idea?

"ah yes comrade brin" for you we have a nice job as third assistant boiler maintenance operative.

Re: How Wall Street recruits so many Ivy League grads

#87
post #23

Investment banking gets a pretty bad reputation in the media, and there are many misconceptions about the industry. I don't think this article was terrible, but I do disagree with a few of the points. For the record, I'm an undergraduate student at a non-Ivy but huge feeder into investment banks. > They're going because they hate risk and are terrified about what to do next and Wall Street has figured out a way to ca…

> "And although I don't plan on working for an investment bank, I hate to see the career ridiculed by misconceptions." Serious question; how old were you in 2008, or 1989? How well informed are you about BCCI, GS, Lehman, BofA, Wachovia... LIBOR etc... There is MUCH to ridicule, condemn and convict.

Haha, you've got Apple and their no-hire cartel, Google dodging their taxes, Intel working people to death... The tech industry doesn't have clean hands either.

Re: How Wall Street recruits so many Ivy League grads

#89
post #65
post #23

Investment banking gets a pretty bad reputation in the media, and there are many misconceptions about the industry. I don't think this article was terrible, but I do disagree with a few of the points. For the record, I'm an undergraduate student at a non-Ivy but huge feeder into investment banks. > They're going because they hate risk and are terrified about what to do next and Wall Street has figured out a way to ca…

> Yes, some of my friends who did investment banking internships (it's near impossible to get the full-time offer without an internship) ended up being miserable. However, some enjoyed the internship very much, and they return for full-time. The experience as a banking intern is a far cry from what the experience is as a full time analyst, at least psychologically. The internship is a 10 week sprint, you're not reall…

And thus the classic joke (told poorly by the first source I could copy):

""" Satan offers incredible wealth to a man in exchange for his soul. The man replies, “B-b-b-but, won’t I have to go to Hell?” Satan says, “Oh, don’t believe what you’ve heard, Hell isn’t that bad. Here, take a look.” And it’s all cocktail receptions and long lazy lunches at fancy restaurants. So he sells his soul. Later, when he dies, he goes to Hell, and sure enough, it’s all flames, pitchforks and eternal agony. The man protests to Satan, who replies – “Oh, that was our summer program.” """

http://abovethelaw.com/2013/06/which-biglaw-summer-associate...

Re: How Wall Street recruits so many Ivy League grads

#90
post #43
post #38

Wall Street is NOT building up America but is instead weakening America by causing a Great Brain Drain from every other vital industry. It is a cancer that's eating away America. Because America is losing the brightest kids who could've really shined and played vital leadership roles in other industries, I feel American industries are falling behind. Some quotes from the article that you should remember: 1. "so many…

Ivy-league grads go into finance because it's an industry that really values their particular pedigree, and is willing to pay for it. Engineering, on the other hand, really doesn't. Engineering companies aren't paying $200k bonuses to kids just a few years out of an Ivy-league school. Indeed, it's pretty hard to set yourself apart, as an engineer, in a way that allows you to earn even twice as much as another enginee…

> If the banks are correct that Ivy-league grads are the best and the brightest,

They aren't. Ivy League grads have "high-status branding" that the banks use to get faux credibility when signing big deals.

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