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The Meaning of Life

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Re: The Meaning of Life

#81

Post by dominotw »

negamax wrote: post #36

Very good video and ideas. "You must have worked really hard at it" Just want to correct the line 'Life is Suffering' when you brought up Buddhism. That sounds sadistic. Buddhist's idea is suffering exists. Which is presented as a fact that can be seen with a rational mind. And life is to be lived in pursuit of eliminating suffering for yourself and others. Just thought, I point this out.

Its not sadistic. Life was full of suffering for vedic nomads who finally settled down in cities. Instead of turing outwards philosophers of that time lie buddha and mahavira turned inwards for comfort.

Re: The Meaning of Life

#82

Post by insin »

DigitalJack wrote: post #43

If you are seeking meaning, consider attending an alpha course. It is a forum for atheist, agnostic, and Christian alike, on the topic of Christianity and faith. http://www.alpha.org/about From the site: Alpha really is for anyone who’s curious. The talks are designed to encourage debate and explore the basics of the Christian faith in a friendly, honest and informal environment.

Adam Rutherford attended an Alpha Course and did a series of posts on the Guardian's Comment Is Free about it, if anyone's interested:

http://www.theguardian.com/global/series/alpha-male

Sounds like the usual credulous nonsense to me, by YMMV :)

Re: The Meaning of Life

#83

Post by majani »

learc83 wrote: post #70

I can't understand how any comment that posits the existence of God or objective morality has been downvoted to oblivion, yet comments that suggests that the only meaning (and thus morality) lies in increasing one's own pleasure are rising to the top. I'd also like to add that michaelsbradley's comment way down at the bottom of the page sums up my Christian belief on the meaning of life pretty nicely even though I'm…

Surely you cannot expect a religious argument to do well in a scientific forum.

Re: The Meaning of Life

#84

Post by DigitalJack »

DigitalJack wrote: post #43

If you are seeking meaning, consider attending an alpha course. It is a forum for atheist, agnostic, and Christian alike, on the topic of Christianity and faith. http://www.alpha.org/about From the site: Alpha really is for anyone who’s curious. The talks are designed to encourage debate and explore the basics of the Christian faith in a friendly, honest and informal environment.

I really don't understand why someone would downvote this.

Re: The Meaning of Life

#85

Post by NaNaN »

jqm wrote: post #58

Some people postulate the meaning of life resides in God. So I wonder then, what the meaning of God's life would be? Simply adding recursive complexity doesn't solve the question, but now you have two problems. For the record, I think the real problem is the question. It supposes that "meaning" can be something outside of what we experience and I don't believe it can be.

Good point. I think the author (and many other people) was just blinded by self-conceit and jumped to a conclusion too quickly.

Re: The Meaning of Life

#86

Post by jqm »

devnonymous wrote: post #79
jqm wrote: post #18

I see little point in trying to ascertain the "meaning" of life. From what I see, life itself gives birth to the concept of meaning not the other way around. But I guess it would be hard to get speaking engagements saying "you are born, then you die, and what you do in between is a waste of time".... Even if this were the case in reality. (Which I'm not saying it is).

You didn't watch the video/hear the talk, did you ?

see the above.

I read the transcript. You didn't read the post and responses carefully did you?

Re: The Meaning of Life

#87

Post by baddox »

javert wrote: post #78
baddox wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "pleasure" is the wrong word to use here, because it conceals that what you're really saying is a tautology. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying that people should pursue the things that they desire. Words like "pleasure" or "happiness" might imply leaving out things like uncomfortable or painful exercise and diet in pursuit of future happiness from improved health or appearance, or sacrificing somethi…

I'm saying that people should pursue pleasure, not whatever they happen to desire. To concretize, pleasure breaks down into two categories: physical pleasure and emotional pleasure. The former includes being full instead of hungry, etc. The latter includes happiness, joy, serenity, etc. So you need to realize that attaining certain kinds of desires lead to maximizing pleasure and minimizing pain, and adjust your desi…

It's a false dichotomy unless you can actually provide an objective dichotomy against the two types of pleasures you mention. I derive pleasure from saving my money, because I know that earns me some financial security and allows me to buy bigger and cooler things in the future. I derive pleasure from exercise that is physically uncomfortable, because I know there are future benefits.

"Utility" is absolutely a better word for this, because "pleasure" often has the connotation of immediate physical euphoria without regard for future ion sequences. In a way, you're right that it's begging the question. Saying "people should do what gives them utility" is basically saying "people should make the decisions they prefer," or "people should do what they think they should do."

Re: The Meaning of Life

#89

Post by javert »

baddox wrote: post #87
javert wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm saying that people should pursue pleasure, not whatever they happen to desire. To concretize, pleasure breaks down into two categories: physical pleasure and emotional pleasure. The former includes being full instead of hungry, etc. The latter includes happiness, joy, serenity, etc. So you need to realize that attaining certain kinds of desires lead to maximizing pleasure and minimizing pain, and adjust your desi…

It's a false dichotomy unless you can actually provide an objective dichotomy against the two types of pleasures you mention. I derive pleasure from saving my money, because I know that earns me some financial security and allows me to buy bigger and cooler things in the future. I derive pleasure from exercise that is physically uncomfortable, because I know there are future benefits. "Utility" is absolutely a better…

> "Utility" is absolutely a better word for this, because "pleasure" often has the connotation of immediate physical euphoria

Utility is worthless without getting you something, which is pleasure. I'm just stating it in more fundamental terms than you are, and getting right to the point. Talking about it, intsead, as "utility" is just making it more absract and muddying the waters.

And it doesn't matter what connotation you think pleasure has---I have stated the definition I am using, and it's not the connotation you want to associate with it. If you have a better term than "pleasure," let me know, but "utility" is not it. "Joy" would work. "Happiness" would work. Presuming a certain definition of those things which essentially equates to a generalized form of long-term emotional pleasure.

Re: The Meaning of Life

#90

Post by joeguilmette »

baddox wrote: post #75
joeguilmette wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In common terms I assume people to mean that an action was taken simply to experience pleasure. It's generally used negatively to imply that there is an emptiness and a selfishness driving the actor which I tend to dispute. I think that your second definition is both easy to support and reduced beyond usefulness. If one experiences pleasure from pain (BDSM, piercing, tattoos, or as you mentioned sacrifice) then there…

Under your proposed definition that includes sacrifice and enjoying pain, how is it possible for anyone to not be practicing hedonism? It's by definition impossible to make a choice that is not your preferred choice.

You can't imagine, drawing on all your life experience, one taking an action that does not bring them pleasure?
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