Live data from Hacker News

Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

blogmaverick.com

81–90 of 90 posts

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow that's cold. It's a bit ugly that you can loop everyone that can't afford healthcare, mental health issues or drug addiction into a single bucket and dispose of them. Those who can afford to spend 6 years in college playing video games, rarely are the ones who are doing it on the gov't dime. Its the kids that grow up in crappy underprivileged neighborhoods with poor school systems and no guidance are the ones tha…

And, you sir, live in a false reality. I bet you'd love to tell us how socialism would work if we "just gave it a chance." Let me guess... it "hasn't been implemented properly" yet right?

You have heard of, say, the EU, Singapore, Canada, Japan, etc? No?

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the social security/medicare/medicaid program okie with you? What is 'social infrastructure'? Why do you think that government can do a better job at spending your money than you alone? Check my other comment where I have written about money spending patterns. Also in another reply I have written about the amount of waste/fraud incurred by medicare/medicaid. Trust me, I have no problem with taxes, I understand…

When you can get 40% off the retail price of basic medicine because you can negotiate drug prices en-masse, let me know. Or how about when making sure education reaches everyone's hands. See, the funny thing about people defending libertarian positions is that if they hadn't lived in a country with a public education infrastructure, roads, fire brigade and energy, it would be very unlikely that they'd had the capacit…

Do you really think government will be able to negotiate the price of basic medicine better than say Walmart/Costco? US have had Medicare/Medicaid for years but that had no effect on price of basic medicines.

Walmart enters the market and voila, you can get 90 day prescription for 10$! You can get similar deals at Costco and Sams Club. Show me one government program which has actually reduced the price of medicine. Walmart opens up clinic at their stores at a low cost so that uninsured people can visit the clinic and actually get basic treatment by paying cash. CVS and other pharmacy stores have followed Walmart's footsteps and started their own clinics program.

As I commented elsewhere, having a school voucher system will ensure that everyone gets education while also letting free market do its magic.

I am from India and we don't have any free health care there. We do have free public school but they are terrible. My father worked hard to send me to private school and I did part time work in college to fund my education.

And I am not suggesting that government should not provide public infrastructure. As I have shown in my other comment, not even 1% of your tax money goes towards infrastructure. Why are you not talking about (outraged about) the immense waste by done by defense/social security/medicare medicaid?

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#83
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't trust large sections of my country and you don't have a solution for dealing with the people who decide to spend their money irrationally. I've got news for you. I don't trust YOU to decide how to spend their money or my money. Yes, people do dumb things with their money. However, they do dumber things with other people's money. And, since the potential damange is greater in the latter case than in the form…

So what no gov't? No taxes? Every year we just let everyone pay what they think roads/school/defense deserves? What do you do with large populations of kids can't go to school because their parents don't want to pay for it. Or people die because of lack of food and drug regulation Or when kids break their legs without health insurance. Or when our parents and grandparents don't have a retirement fund because they sav…

No one is suggesting that there should not be government or taxes. What we are advocating for is limited government and minimal taxes.

Think about this for a moment. You think that health care is a right and everyone should have it. To expand this, you can also say that 'food' is a right and everyone should get it. Should government get in to business of taxing people and making sure that food is provided for everyone?

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#84
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you give me an example where FDA has done a good job? Let me give you some examples of where they have fucked up. * Seven thousand people die every year because the FDA hasn't approved the Ambu CardioPump, a CPR device that is available in just about every other industrialized country. * Nine hundred people die every year because the FDA hasn't approved the OmniCarbon heart valve, which also is in use just abou…

How is the FDA useful? From http://fdaissues.blogspot.com/2008/03/upton-sinclair-book-ju... In "The Jungle", Upton Sinclair, "wrote about how dead rats were shoveled into sausage grinding machines. He explained, in nauseating detail, how diseased cows were slaughtered for beef; how guts and garbage were swept off the floor and sold as "potted ham." Upton Sinclair even described how the occasional worker would fall in…

In India, we don't have any department like FDA and it works just fine. The market forces will ensure that only those companies who provide edible food survives and rest are driven out of business. Taking your own example, after Sinclair's book, didn't meat sales fell by half? Did you need FDA to see that consumers didn't eat that meat? Let's imagine that government did not create FDA after that book and meat sales continue to decline. Don't you think that meat companies would have come up with a plan to restore consumer confidence? They would change their practices, advertise the fact that they are not clean and safe. They would have asked independent journalists to visit their facility. And slowly buy surely, consumers would have come back.

Let me give you an example. FDA doesn't regulate coffee temperature. A lady gets first degree burn from McD's coffee. She sues McD and wins. McD (and all other companies who sell coffee) ensures that they set up right temperature for their coffee. FDA didn't have to do anything and still all the consumers are better off than before.

You haven't given me any public studies where it is proven that FDA disapproval saved people's lives. The page you have linked lists bunch of products but nothing else.

You have yourself outlined the biggest problem with FDA. Because FDA is made up of people like you and me and when you give them power, rest assured that the power will be misused. I would rather trust free market's invisible hand do the work for me instead of few hundred government bureaucrats of FDA. Who is responsible if people die because these government bureaucrats are too slow to approve a drug/medicine?

You copied/pasted text from ADL site about extremist groups running the schools. The point of voucher system is that as a parent of a child, you are allowed to choose a school where you send your kid and that school gets the voucher money. I am sure you are not going to send your kid to school operated by extremist group.

Explain me again why one needs to break a monopoly? You have to understand that it's not easy to become a monopoly. A corporation has to work extremely hard and satisfy their customers for a long time to become a monopoly. If a monopoly starts misusing their status and screw with their customers, soon there will be more companies trying to service the customers and it will automatically take away monopoly. For all practical purposes, Google has monopoly in Internet search. I am sure you would suggest that we should break this monopoly. What good this will do for the consumers? And yes, we oppose government monopoly because they become monopoly not by servicing customers, they become monopoly because the law grants them monopoly. Prime example: USPS vs Fedex/UPS.

You also question inequitable distribution of wealth. Let me ask you, how are you going to ensure equal distribution of wealth if government is in charge? How is government going to make sure that wealth is distributed equally? The fact is government doesn't even have wealth of its own.

Here's why I believe in libertarian philosophy. Government is about power and if you give this power to someone you better be sure that this power is not misused. The very power hungry people who are running for the government are precisely the people who should not be given power.

See this video on Greed by Milton Friedman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A

My choice quote:

'Where in the world are you going to find these angels who are going to organize society for us?' :)

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, you sir, live in a false reality. I bet you'd love to tell us how socialism would work if we "just gave it a chance." Let me guess... it "hasn't been implemented properly" yet right?

Wow which false reality is that? I'm well aware of how much I pay in taxes, its significant and getting worse since I started my own business this year. But I believe that my taxes fill a need society and in fact even have a pragmatic slant (one which Cuban raised) in the Keynsian model more taxes = more spending by gov't and the only real way to stimulate economy. Win/Win I help people and make more money with a bet…

Show me one example where government is able to stimulate economy. First, you will have to clarify what 'stimulating an economy' means. Once you have specified what it means, you will have to explain how each dollar spent has somehow stimulated the economy.

I think you fail to comprehend how complicated modern day economy is. Have you heard of 'I, Pencil' story? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6vjrzUplWU The gist is that no single person knows how to make a pencil. Because of co-ordinated efforts of thousands of people, working for their own goals, makes it possible to manufacture pencil and deliver it at your local store where you can buy it for dollar a piece.

Do you really think that few hundred bureaucrats in DC can decide how billions of dollars should be spent so that economy is stimulated?

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#86
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't trust large sections of my country and you don't have a solution for dealing with the people who decide to spend their money irrationally. I've got news for you. I don't trust YOU to decide how to spend their money or my money. Yes, people do dumb things with their money. However, they do dumber things with other people's money. And, since the potential damange is greater in the latter case than in the form…

So what no gov't? No taxes? Every year we just let everyone pay what they think roads/school/defense deserves? What do you do with large populations of kids can't go to school because their parents don't want to pay for it. Or people die because of lack of food and drug regulation Or when kids break their legs without health insurance. Or when our parents and grandparents don't have a retirement fund because they sav…

> I fail to see how having a gov't spending our money makes the potential damage worse.

Oh really?

When you spend your money on your stuff, you try really hard to get the best value.

When you spend your money on someone else's stuff, you go cheap.

When you spend someone else's money on your stuff, you don't worry so much about cost effectiveness.

Govt spending is someone else's money for someone else's stuff. Do you really think that that's as good as either of the previous two categories, let alone the first one?

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#87
post #29

"[when that tax bill comes your thought should be]... a recognition that in paying your taxes you are helping to support millions of Americans that are not as fortunate as you." Right, so I bust my ass in school, non-paid internships, contracting as much as possible, and 50 hour work weeks on my startup... and the reason I'm making money is b/c I'm more "fortunate" than the slob who is still playing video games in co…

"Right, so I bust my ass in school, non-paid internships, contracting as much as possible, and 50 hour work weeks on my startup... and the reason I'm making money is b/c I'm more "fortunate" than the slob who is still playing video games in college after 6 years and the idiot who chooses to have kids he can't afford?" I don't know you, but I consider myself fortunate to be making more money than most because I was gi…

Do people really think poor people choose to be so? Nobody wants to be poor.

That no one wants to be poor is obvious enough, but it's hardly the same as whether or not they choose to be. The poorest person I know has an IQ of 186 and a PhD in chemistry. He chooses to live on government disability and not work, even though he's quite capable of doing so. But he he shares a quality I've noticed in all of the poor people I know personally: a belief the world owes him a living. Everything in his screwed-up life is someone else's fault, never his, no matter how much damage he inflicts on others.

That isn't all poor people, but it's a lot of them.

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#88
post #9

Cuban is well known for speaking his mind, and he lived up to his reputation in this interview. Thats what we are all out here to do. And thats what this country is built on. Entrepreneurship. Creating something from nothing, and making the process better, more efficient, and productive each time. Mark Cuban said that we need to make a boatload of money, but does not say how exactly to do that. At this point, you can…

"And thats what this country is built on. Entrepreneurship. Creating something from nothing, and making the process better, more efficient, and productive each time." I'm pretty sure that if this country was "built on" a concept, it was intellectual freedom. Entrepreneurship is perhaps a nice consequence of that legacy, but let's not confuse which end wags the dog.

Without entrepreneurship, there would be no Ford, no Microsoft, nor many other "must haves" that we enjoy today. Entrepreneurship created the automobile, the computer as we know it today, the website that we are discussing on right now, and all the startups that Y-Combinator supports.

Allow me to rephrase. Entrepreneurship is what our economy is built upon. Not intellectual freedom. Granted, intellectual freedom created peanut butter, the lightbulb and more. But no one was attempting to create these items for sales purposes initially. Peanut butter was invented by George Washington Carver, not Jiff.

And I wouldnt say that intellectual freedom is what built this county. As so many whom actually put in the man hours, hard work and physical suffering to build this country, did not have any intellectual freedom, and died in the process.

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what no gov't? No taxes? Every year we just let everyone pay what they think roads/school/defense deserves? What do you do with large populations of kids can't go to school because their parents don't want to pay for it. Or people die because of lack of food and drug regulation Or when kids break their legs without health insurance. Or when our parents and grandparents don't have a retirement fund because they sav…

No one is suggesting that there should not be government or taxes. What we are advocating for is limited government and minimal taxes. Think about this for a moment. You think that health care is a right and everyone should have it. To expand this, you can also say that 'food' is a right and everyone should get it. Should government get in to business of taxing people and making sure that food is provided for everyon…

> you can also say that 'food' is a right and everyone should get it. Should government get in to business of taxing people and making sure that food is provided for everyone?

More to the point, even if you think that food is a right and tax people to provide it to the less fortunate, should we have "Nationalized Food Service" or a subsidized "public option"? How about a tax on employers that don't provide acceptable "private food service"?

And speaking of this "food right", does it apply to folks who aren't capable of full participation in civil society? I ask because one of the White House advisors on health care believes that health care as a right does not apply to such folks, giving as an example folks with dementia. Would folks with Downs syndrome qualify?

He also thinks that old folks don't qualify.

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#90
post #5

"Make a boatload of money. Pay your taxes. Lots of taxes. Hire people. Train people. Pay people. Spend money on rent, equipment, services. Pay more taxes." Don't most wealthy people hire lawyers and lobbyists to help them not pay taxes? Don't they also move jobs overseas to reduce how much they pay to their own economy? Cuban seems to be living in a dreamworld.

To be sure, this happens, but I'm not sure I'd accuse him of living in a dreamworld... For one, he's not saying you can't go through hoops to avoid paying taxes, he's saying don't do it. Of course, if we wanted to we could legislate to prevent this exploitation of tax law, although I'm not sure how far that would get without a considerable social realignment.

Wasn't trying to completely dismiss Cuban on this. I simply do not see enough wealthy not using loophole that are available to them. This is why I say he's living in a dreamworld. Your right, to fix this, you have to legislate out all the loopholes. And this would take considerable social alignment.
Post reply on HN