Next can we talk about SSRI's? My little brother was prescribed Paxil as an adolescent. Now he's in prison for murder. Now Paxil is not allowed to be prescribed for adolescents and children but my brother will die in prison. He behaved exactly how kids prescribed this medicine behave, in a murderous rage.
The Drugging Of The American Boy
81–90 of 106 posts
Re: The Drugging Of The American Boy
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
So given that ADHD is, in actual fact, a neurobiological diagnosis, not a psychological diagnosis, then I guess you're stating your support for treating it with drugs?
Neurobiological sounds like psychological to me. Unless you're saying doctors are measuring things like dopamine activity or doing brain MRIs to diagnose ADHD. There's no good evidence that ADHD is not the result of psychological conditioning. For that matter, even if you measured abnormal neurotransmitter activity or brain scans in suspected ADHD patients before diagnosing them, if you looked at animal psychology st…
Is there similar literature for ADHD?
Re: The Drugging Of The American Boy
#83My third grade teacher apparently had every boy in her class tested. As a boy, and frankly as a boy who was independent, mouthy and unlikely to do work in school unless I wanted to, I'm glad I had great parents and a great pediatrician. My pediatrician had my parents and teacher run an experiment: my mom would choose a pill with active ingredient or a pill with nothing in it, and my teacher, without knowing which I t…
Re: The Drugging Of The American Boy
#84Next can we talk about SSRI's? My little brother was prescribed Paxil as an adolescent. Now he's in prison for murder. Now Paxil is not allowed to be prescribed for adolescents and children but my brother will die in prison. He behaved exactly how kids prescribed this medicine behave, in a murderous rage.
So long as the chemical imbalance myth is perpetuated and one in ten Americans are on anti-depressants, all SSRI prescriptions are sacrosanct. Sadly, society isn't ready to have this discussion.
Re: The Drugging Of The American Boy
#85A few years ago teachers complained that both my boys were too intense on the playground, 'diagnosed' with ADHD. Docs were eager to prescribe meds to make them conform. There is something in our society wants to redefine normal behavior as pathology. Maybe to get you hooked and build revenue streams, maybe just to make you more pliable. Fuck that. Yes there are legitimate cases. But I've only experienced people who w…
Legalized drugging of culture, is all it is. Utter, literal brainwashing.
(A real solution wouldn't require a prescription.)
Re: The Drugging Of The American Boy
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
So long as the chemical imbalance myth is perpetuated and one in ten Americans are on anti-depressants, all SSRI prescriptions are sacrosanct. Sadly, society isn't ready to have this discussion.
True, that. Its really hard to talk down addicts from their high.
Re: The Drugging Of The American Boy
#87ADHD isn't real. It didn't exist in many previous generations. Surely, the behavior of children hasn't changed much over the last few generations so how come this "disease" didn't exist previous to the current couple of generations and how come it still doesn't exist in many places on the planet? Could foreign kids somehow be better? Of course not. As the article points out, this is a ploy by pharmaceutical companies…
My parents didn't want me on ADHD meds - which is hysterical because my father very obviously has undiagnosed symptoms of ADHD too - so I didn't get any and had to rely solely on behavioral techniques and societal pressure until I picked my own damn therapist. Me at 16 in college with dinky checklists compared to me at 25 right now with the same checklists and Adderall is like night and day. As much as I love my pare…
Giving a growing brain a psychoactive drug is serious business.
Also, of course, you are looking back with perfect hindsight. What if you'd had a serious adverse event, psychosis, or otherwise negative outcome? No one could have known, and that was a risk your parents had to weigh. In fact, your brain now is different than then. Perhaps your parents helped you to dodge a devastating bullet by withholding psychoactive drugs at a younger age.
Re: The Drugging Of The American Boy
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
Which article did you read? Not only was there no discussion of the cost of false negatives, there was very little treatment of the actual cost of false positives, just a nebulous assertion that its bad for kids to be on pills. I would say the point of the article is here is a list of reasons why it might be over-diagnosed, some people on both sides of that, 50% puffed up with human interest pap about the Boy Whisper…
"... of the actual cost of false positives, just a nebulous assertion that its bad for kids to be on pills." It's bad for kids to be on pills.
Re: The Drugging Of The American Boy
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
So given that ADHD is, in actual fact, a neurobiological diagnosis, not a psychological diagnosis, then I guess you're stating your support for treating it with drugs?
Neurobiological sounds like psychological to me. Unless you're saying doctors are measuring things like dopamine activity or doing brain MRIs to diagnose ADHD. There's no good evidence that ADHD is not the result of psychological conditioning. For that matter, even if you measured abnormal neurotransmitter activity or brain scans in suspected ADHD patients before diagnosing them, if you looked at animal psychology st…
1) You don't need to speculate what neurobiological means using phonetics, it's a real word with a definition you can just look up if your actual interest is in the facts. Neurobiological actually means related to the nervous system of the body. ALS is also neurobiological, and I'm guessing you wouldn't say it "sounds" psychological.
2)If you'd bothered to look, you'd find there is actually quite a bit of study of D2 and D4 availability correlated with ADHD symptoms. Like virtually all medical diagnoses both psychological and physiological, differential diagnosis is done by combining probabilities with presented symptoms, and not with exhaustive testing. Your requirement of diagnosing ADHD with a brain MRI is the equivalent of requiring endoscopy to diagnose an ulcer.
So what you say is factually incorrect, there's plenty of evidence. That's why the scientific body of many countries including the US has classified it as neurobiological (not psychological) for years, and the bulk of the scientific community believes pharmaceutical treatment is necessary in the same way that a broken arm needs to actually be set instead of telling the patient not to be lazy.
If you want to use scare quotes and insist on unfalsifiable assertions "prove the negative 'not' the result of psychological conditioning" then you are placing your argument in the same category as climate change deniers and anti-vaccers - anti-science, anti-rigor, pro-scare quotes.
Re: The Drugging Of The American Boy
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
When you say it is a "fact that there are large structural brain differences", which differences did you mean? I may be focusing on the wrong thing. What I've found (brain size) doesn't have a clear enough difference to be used as part of diagnosis. For example, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2859218/ notes that head circumference and cross-sectional MRI measurements of brain size show that children diag…
Not the entire brain, just the portions that deal with self control! This is actually where the "Hyperactive" part of ADHD comes from, normally the parts of the brain that control motor skills and the parts that allow for self control grow in tandem, for children with ADHD, their motor skills outpace their self control. Their executive functioning eventually catches up, thus the myth of "children grow out of ADHD" ca…
They appear to be about the same research program. They share the same author, Philip Shaw. From the first "We measured the thickness of the cortex across thousands of points in the brain in .. (466) children - half of whom had ADHD and half of whom did not" and from the second "They recruited 234 children with ADHD and 231 typically developing children ... they were able to map the trajectories of surface area development at over 80,000 points across the brain."
Even though they appear to be different efforts (the number of children involved are different and the years are different), there might still be some spurious correlations solely because the same people, with the same expectations and analysis technique, are involved.
Unfortunately, I am unable to read the primary literature. The first links to a paywalled journal article ($31.50), the second doesn't have a journal citation. I found http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3342014/ by the same author, and published a couple of months after the article in the first link. Unfortunately, which it says there are distinguishable features, along with two reference comparisons, it doesn't give enough information to judge if those differences are truly diagnostic.
I did find http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3440402/ which comments "The ADHD diagnosis rests only on these symptoms because no biological markers (e.g. genetic tests, brain imaging) have been validated [11]", but that reference [11] is from 2006, and older than the two links you gave.
A 2007 metaanalysis (so again, older than the two references you gave) at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16950217 points out that at that time "Although there are many structural neuroimaging studies of attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) in children, there are inconsistencies across studies and no consensus regarding which brain regions show the most robust area or volumetric reductions relative to control subjects."
To highlight the intent behind those last two previous paragraph, they are saying that there are many studies like the ones you pointed out, which show a correlation between some physical measurement and ADHD. Unfortunately, they don't seem to be consistent. Because of the well-known publication bias problem, it's likely that false positives are over-reported. It takes additional followup work to determine if those signals are really true, and if they are distinguishable enough to be used diagnostically.
This all tells me that there is no "large structural brain difference", and especially not one which has been validated as a diagnostic tool. There might be a small structural brain difference, but again, I find no evidence that identification of this difference is available as a diagnostic tool at all, even if the price were disregarded.
Again, I might be focusing on the wrong thing, but perhaps you may be misinformed? If most of your research is through the popular literature, then my earlier reference to http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3440402/ ("Why Most Biomedical Findings Echoed by Newspapers Turn Out to be False: The Case of Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder") may be useful:
> Because newspapers preferentially echo initial ADHD findings appearing in prominent journals, they report on uncertain findings that are often refuted or attenuated by subsequent studies. If this media reporting bias generalizes to health sciences, it represents a major cause of distortion in health science communication.