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CEO Aaron Levie Will Only Own 4.1% Of Box When It IPOs, Investor DFJ Owns 25.5%

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Re: CEO Aaron Levie Will Only Own 4.1% Of Box When It IPOs, Investor DFJ Owns 25.5%

#81

And the average engineer who thought they'd be rich, probably owns 0.0002%. Have fun with your 200k! Startups are such a scam for the employees.

To add to this, so what if it is "$200K" ? Basically that is enough to completely cover one kids education at a state school, put down 20% on a million dollar house, or seed fund your next "big thing" for easily 6 to 18 months. On top of that you've been working for a salary that probably paid all your existing living expenses so you were not accumulating debt. That is a pretty cool thing. Further, if you continue to…

To add to this, so what if it is "$200K" ? Basically that is enough to completely cover one kids education at a state school, put down 20% on a million dollar house, or seed fund your next "big thing" for easily 6 to 18 months. On top of that you've been working for a salary that probably paid all your existing living expenses so you were not accumulating debt. That is a pretty cool thing.

You are not allowed to comment further on this until you read this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

So, here's how to read startup and employee equity. Compare it to Wall Street. Yes, Wall Street.

Forget whatever negative image you have of banks or hedge funds. Whatever negative thing you might say about those also applies to most VC-funded startups. (After all, most VCs are ex-finance guys, MBAs who didn't do well enough in school to get into stat arb.) 95% of startups have worse hours than IT or quant or S&T roles in banks. (Analyst programs are a different mess.) 95% of startups have no moral edge in terms of mission or management ethics. 95% of startups fire more quickly and with less severance (sometimes zero, plus a ruined reputation because shit happens when arrogant kids fall into power) than any bank. 95% of startups aren't giving more interesting work to non-founder engineers than large companies (being CTO or first engineer might be cool, but a typical engineering role is inferior) do. 95% of startups don't have the prestige for their more liberal titles/promotions to actually carry durable weight.

So, there's literally no good reason to choose the startup ecosystem, unless you have a rare informational advantage, over Wall Street. Are there excellent startups out there? Yes, there are. I would argue that very few people have the skills necessary to tell the good few apart from the worthless many.

In the successes, the typical employee equity payout, vested over 4 years, is the kind of bonus banks give when they're looking to fire someone nicely (i.e. the "we'll disappoint him out" bonus).

Also, acquisitions are generally terrible for regular employees in terms of position, rank, etc. So you should literally think of liquidation as a severance, because the odds are high that the acquirer already has someone doing your job and he has the political edge. And $200k after taxes is really rare for an employee startup payout. That might be 98th percentile. I've seen lots of zeros in acquisitions considered "successful" by Techcrunch.

It really is a fucking scam, but it's not just a problem with startups. Software people are terrible at looking out for their own interests. Engineers either need to become savvy and self-interested like hedge fund quants and get what they're worth, or bring back the out-of-fashion but powerful concept of collective bargaining.

Re: CEO Aaron Levie Will Only Own 4.1% Of Box When It IPOs, Investor DFJ Owns 25.5%

#82
post #27

Random question: When a company finally IPOs, how much equity are the top guys expected to hold onto? I know it's common for founders to be allowed to cash out some of their equity during financing rounds, usually enough to make them comfortable (a few million). The reason I ask is if you're Aaron Levie and Box IPOs, are you expected to not sell much of your remaining stake unless you leave the company? It just remin…

Here's data on equity ownership at the time of IPO for 258 companies: http://www.slideshare.net/lebret/equity-in-258-high-tech-sta...

The average overall was 7.6%, but it varies a lot, from close to 0% (Zipcar) up to 28% (Amazon).

Re: CEO Aaron Levie Will Only Own 4.1% Of Box When It IPOs, Investor DFJ Owns 25.5%

#83

IIRC PayPal was very similar - it was sold for $1.5B, but Max Levchin's share was only about $30M, and Elon Musk's was only about $100M. By comparison, many early Web 2.0 darlings (Del.icio.us, Blogger, Flickr) sold for only $20-40M, but their founders had only taken small seed rounds, and so the vast majority of the purchase price went to the founders. 75% of a $40M acquisition = 3% of a $1B acquisition. Something f…

This. Founders are better served maximizing traction at the lowest outside investment possible. If it doesn't become big, then you still hold a large chunk of a small company. And if does, then you hold a fairly large chunk of a large company.

Yup. 100% of nothing is still nothing.

Re: CEO Aaron Levie Will Only Own 4.1% Of Box When It IPOs, Investor DFJ Owns 25.5%

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The point of the down payment is to reduce the loan-to-value ratio which, in turn, reduces the risk taken by the bank (as the property value would have to fall by more than the amount of the down payment before the loan collateral is worth less than the loan). This risk reduction is why the bank will give you a loan at y% rather than 1.5y%. This reduces your monthly payments to an amount you can afford each month…

As I mentioned down thread, it's not that easy. Mike Davidson, who sold Newsvine to MSNBC and had enough liquid cash to (more than) cover his mortgage that day in its entirety still went through hoop after hoop even refinancing his loan. Risk is only a part of the equation here.

If he had that cash, why didn't he just buy the damn house himself?

Re: CEO Aaron Levie Will Only Own 4.1% Of Box When It IPOs, Investor DFJ Owns 25.5%

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know it seems to me that Silicon Valley is littered with folks who've made a shit ton of money by founding companies and taking chunks off the table during funding rounds. Kevin Rose/Digg come to mind. This way if you become huge you still get a payday but even if it doesn't you're still a millionaire (and maybe an angel investor in companies that do become huge, Kevin Rose/Digg comes to mind).

You typically need leverage to do this too. Zuckerburg was famous for popularizing the practice, but he could only do it because Facebook was taking off like a rocket ship and everybody wanted in. It's very rare that a startup without traction could successfully negotiate founder cash-outs.

Another SV thing.. being able to fire your board: priceless.

Re: CEO Aaron Levie Will Only Own 4.1% Of Box When It IPOs, Investor DFJ Owns 25.5%

#86

And the average engineer who thought they'd be rich, probably owns 0.0002%. Have fun with your 200k! Startups are such a scam for the employees.

I'm curious what kind of warped perspective allows someone to scoff at a $200,000 windfall and where I can acquire such a perspective.

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Re: CEO Aaron Levie Will Only Own 4.1% Of Box When It IPOs, Investor DFJ Owns 25.5%

#87
post #4

Not surprising given they raised 11 rounds, including series A-F, and have cumulatively raised over 400M

Exactly. If you raise that much money and are still have net losses higher than your revenues, you won't own much equity.

Re: CEO Aaron Levie Will Only Own 4.1% Of Box When It IPOs, Investor DFJ Owns 25.5%

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cuban sold his shares to DFJ during their series A in 06 due to disagreements: http://pando.com/2014/01/31/box-is-the-unicorn-that-mark-cub...

The Cuban comment in that thread is interesting: "I didn't miss a thing. When a company raises hundreds of millions of dollars I would have been diluted to nothing. But the bigger issue is that I'm not a fan of situations where you have to raise hundreds of millions of dollars to do tens of millions in sales. It's a lesson learned from the tech bubble It was one thing when the valuation as a multiple of sales was in…

Box needs to monetize on enterprise add-ons. There's a huge pile of cash there if they hustle ahead and steal Dropbox's lollipop.

Further, nurturing and gobbling up feature plays. Gotta pull off a "Siri."

Finally, tons more integrations (other apps, more language sdks and some videos showing off some neat use-cases at open source conferences).

Re: CEO Aaron Levie Will Only Own 4.1% Of Box When It IPOs, Investor DFJ Owns 25.5%

#89
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Startups that pay employees well are not scams for employees. Startups that give >0.1% are not scams. Anyone getting 0.0002% expecting to get rich is not being scammed, they are being stupid.

So many startups don't even give out the % your options are..

You can always ask the number of shares outstanding and calculate it yourself.

Re: CEO Aaron Levie Will Only Own 4.1% Of Box When It IPOs, Investor DFJ Owns 25.5%

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to this, so what if it is "$200K" ? Basically that is enough to completely cover one kids education at a state school, put down 20% on a million dollar house, or seed fund your next "big thing" for easily 6 to 18 months. On top of that you've been working for a salary that probably paid all your existing living expenses so you were not accumulating debt. That is a pretty cool thing. Further, if you continue to…

"put down 20% on a million dollar house" - maybe, or maybe not. Your bank might still look at it as a gift, and you still run into issues. For example, Mike Davidson (founder of Newsvine) describes in a blog about building a $1.1M home after he sold to MSNBC ( http://www.ahousebythepark.com/journal/archive/category/fina... ): "My credit is great and I have a strong cash position, but even so, getting a jumbo loan is…

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