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What Did Not Happen At Mt. Gox

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Re: What Did Not Happen At Mt. Gox

#81

Question: If the bitcoins were stolen, and the thieves later try to trade them, will that be obvious from the blockchain? Or can they successfully spend them without anyone realizing they are stolen?

In theory, yes. In practice, MtGox hasn't said what outputs were lost/stolen and there are ways to defeat blockchain analysis like depositing to BTC-E and withdrawing.

Re: What Did Not Happen At Mt. Gox

#82

There are many interesting points made and dealt with in this article but what's weird/wrong/suspicious about a CEO using IRC? Did he say something specifically stupid there? Or is the very medium tainted?

Feeding trolls on IRC sounds like a waste of time when he could have been, like, securing his customers' money or something.

Re: What Did Not Happen At Mt. Gox

#83
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Born in France, so he speaks French. Involved with the internet, so he speaks English. Lives in Japan, so he speaks Japanese. This is not impressive.

Speaking as someone who is anti-Karpeles and unilingual: I think speaking three languages, regardless of context, is incredibly impressive.

I can speak this much in 5-7 languages. It's not impressive.

I'm only fluent in 3 languages.

Re: What Did Not Happen At Mt. Gox

#84

I guess I don't see why the simplest explanation isn't that the US Feds seized the contents of the safe deposit boxes where their cold wallet was kept last year along with the $5m in bank deposits.

Then why isn't anyone saying that? Why could they admit $5M was seized but not admit that BTC was also taken at the same time?

Re: What Did Not Happen At Mt. Gox

#85
post #84

I guess I don't see why the simplest explanation isn't that the US Feds seized the contents of the safe deposit boxes where their cold wallet was kept last year along with the $5m in bank deposits.

Then why isn't anyone saying that? Why could they admit $5M was seized but not admit that BTC was also taken at the same time?

A gag order?

Could explain a lot of their behavior, actually.

Re: What Did Not Happen At Mt. Gox

#86
post #29

By the way have you seen Mark Karpeles public apology in Tokyo? (20 seconds in) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15IZtzWOzRU So he is French, educated in Paris and living in Japan since 2009? Speaks French, English and Japanese. Sounds interesting, he's no dummy.

Married to a Japanese woman... allegedly moved there after an accusation of computer fraud in France - http://www.lejsl.com/saone-et-loire/2014/03/01/un-qi-superie...

Re: What Did Not Happen At Mt. Gox

#87
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author here. I think there is some subtlety around the technical point that may be getting lost. Ittay Eyal and I were the ones who discovered an attack against Bitcoin called selfish mining, where we showed how a miner could earn more than his fair share. This attack did not require, but could benefit from, the attacker racing against honest participants on the peer-to-peer network. Some members of the Bitcoin commu…

It'd be most accurate to say you rigorously described a kind of mining-cartel attack that had been discussed years earlier, but I know I won't convince you of that, because you only count published academic papers, and the earlier discussions of the same attack all happened in less-formal bitcoin forums. Regarding MtGox scenarios: Reliable evidence on what MtGox truly did is scarce, but people have widely speculated…

"only outsiders with a giant archive of long-ago race-losing transactions (that never reached blocks) would be able to estimate the magnitude of the losses. (I don't know any public source for such an archive.)"

Is that actually the case, or can most/all forms of malleability be detected by looking abnormal transactions that wouldn't have been generated by any known client?

Looking at the known sources of malleability, most of them would never be done intentionally: https://gist.github.com/sipa/8907691

Has anyone done a comprehensive analysis like this yet?

Re: What Did Not Happen At Mt. Gox

#88
post #80

We are talking about a half a billion dollar heist here. That's a lot of money - probably in the top 10 of biggest robberies ever committed. You wouldn't have be a super hacker to pull it off. Some hidden cameras, USB key loggers and some microphones in the office could probably have gotten you a lot closer to that money. And if you then could lure MtGox into emptying their hot wallet with the tx mal problem, then ev…

Third biggest robbery ever if this list is accurate: http://listverse.com/2009/12/01/10-largest-robberies-in-hist...

Re: What Did Not Happen At Mt. Gox

#89
Btw, wouldn't it be easy to track down the mauled transactions and look who initiated them? After all, no one can use MtGox anonymously. Obviously, 'the hacker' could have used hacked accounts (this would have been noticed) or false identities.

Re: What Did Not Happen At Mt. Gox

#90
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd be most accurate to say you rigorously described a kind of mining-cartel attack that had been discussed years earlier, but I know I won't convince you of that, because you only count published academic papers, and the earlier discussions of the same attack all happened in less-formal bitcoin forums. Regarding MtGox scenarios: Reliable evidence on what MtGox truly did is scarce, but people have widely speculated…

"only outsiders with a giant archive of long-ago race-losing transactions (that never reached blocks) would be able to estimate the magnitude of the losses. (I don't know any public source for such an archive.)" Is that actually the case, or can most/all forms of malleability be detected by looking abnormal transactions that wouldn't have been generated by any known client? Looking at the known sources of malleabilit…

I don't know of a comprehensive survey of all kinds of malleability evidenced in the blockchain. It should be possible.

The issue with using it to estimate an upper bound on potential MtGox losses is that since some portion of MtGox's historic transactions were non-canonical, a third-party mutation could result in a 'normal' transaction entering the blockchain... but MtGox still confused, perhaps to the point of loss. Any survey would miss such transactions.

Maybe there's a private archive of never-confirmed transactions. Since it seems MtGox at times provided a public feed of (some of?) its own intended transactions, someone who'd been scraping/saving that for long enough might have a useful estimator dataset.

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