A letter from Paper (FiftyThree) to Paper (Facebook) • Hacker News Board

Re: A letter from Paper (FiftyThree) to Paper (Facebook)

#81

Post by mchusma » Mon, Feb 03, 2014, 5:59 PM UTC

phreeza wrote: post #52

petenixey wrote: post #36

Pfft. What a silly request. This is an entirely different application. Should we expect an upcoming blog post from 53 complaining that Crayola has released a new product entitled "Pencil"? If you want to protect your name, use a protectable name. If you're going to use an entirely generic name then deal with it... wait hang on... Dunder Mifflin just called... they want their name back too. Cool company, great product…

Whats more, Wacom also has an app called Paper, which does something very similar to 53 paper. Not sure which one was there first, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was Wacom.

It was Wacom. Which was why Paper called themselves "Paper by 53".

Re: A letter from Paper (FiftyThree) to Paper (Facebook)

#82

Post by metaphorm » Mon, Feb 03, 2014, 6:00 PM UTC

ynniv wrote: post #22

People are going to call the app by Facebook "Facebook Paper" because "Paper" is simply too generic. 53's drawing app name is not strong either. Their iOS app is not called "Paper", but "Paper by FiftyThree". Their icon is not of paper, but of a napkin style rendering of "53". For all intents, the drawing simulation brand name is "FiftyThree". There was a brief moment in history when people thought "I wonder if 53 wa…

sorry, but that's not how trademark and branding works.

Perhaps you should try bringing to market a product called "Coca-Cola by Ynniv" and you can find out for yourself how this really works.

Re: A letter from Paper (FiftyThree) to Paper (Facebook)

#83

Post by atacrawl » Mon, Feb 03, 2014, 6:02 PM UTC

One of Facebook’s board members is an investor in FiftyThree.

This line tells the whole story. This isn't just the case of a large company perhaps not noticing another product in the digital space with the same name. This is very deliberate, and the CEO comes across as flabbergasted with Facebook's decision.

Re: A letter from Paper (FiftyThree) to Paper (Facebook)

#84

Post by Touche » Mon, Feb 03, 2014, 6:02 PM UTC

jimwalsh wrote: post #76

ynniv wrote: post #22

People are going to call the app by Facebook "Facebook Paper" because "Paper" is simply too generic. 53's drawing app name is not strong either. Their iOS app is not called "Paper", but "Paper by FiftyThree". Their icon is not of paper, but of a napkin style rendering of "53". For all intents, the drawing simulation brand name is "FiftyThree". There was a brief moment in history when people thought "I wonder if 53 wa…

"Windows", "Apple", aren't too generic. This is perfectly reasonable for 53 to ask this of Facebook.

I suggest you read up on Microsoft v Lindows before you use that example.

Re: A letter from Paper (FiftyThree) to Paper (Facebook)

#85

Post by jonny_eh » Mon, Feb 03, 2014, 6:03 PM UTC

shanselman wrote: post #79

Companies, even hip web 3.0 companies, need to stop taking generic common nouns and declaring them trademarks. From Surface to Paper, these names are far too easy to confuse.

I recall people complaining about all the made up words being used for company names from the web 2.0 era.

Re: A letter from Paper (FiftyThree) to Paper (Facebook)

#86

Post by Touche » Mon, Feb 03, 2014, 6:04 PM UTC

fleitz wrote: post #53

sliverstorm wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it will be pretty ridiculous if FiftyThree manages to enforce some kind of IP over the use of the word "paper" as a name for a product... Trademarking common English words, anyone?

Windows, Apple, etc are all trademarked, pls stop being an arm chair lawyer and recognize there is a huge amount of precedent in using common english words to trademark things other than their common usage. MS can trademark Windows in conjunction with computer interfaces, but not if they decide to make windows that go in houses. That's where the common usage trademark issue arises. Also, if like kerosene the word bec…

You should read up on Microsoft v Lindows.

Re: A letter from Paper (FiftyThree) to Paper (Facebook)

#87

Post by ig1 » Mon, Feb 03, 2014, 6:04 PM UTC

taude wrote: post #27

ig1 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I always use Paper on my ipad for all my pictures, you should check it out" Which app would you download from the appstore ?

Pictures or drawings? I don't know anyone who uses Paper for all their pictures. Maybe it's an image editor now?

Which Paper are you talking about 53 or Facebook ?

Re: A letter from Paper (FiftyThree) to Paper (Facebook)

#88

Post by throwaway420 » Mon, Feb 03, 2014, 6:06 PM UTC

pron wrote: post #74

throwaway420 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insofar as FiftyThree is merely making a polite request as a matter of professional courtesy rather than threatening legal action, then I don't think your criticism applies. They didn't get nasty about it, they didn't cite some bizarre legal arguments where they claimed to forever own the word Paper. They just made a cordial request. I think that's entirely reasonable and makes them come across very good in this situ…

Making a cordial request about it to Facebook is one thing; publicizing it (probably in an effort to shame Facebook) is another.

There's a very real possibility that FiftyThree is going to get impacted in all kinds of searches because of this. I don't begrudge them for taking advantage of a marketing opportunity that will get written about in the media that they'd be fools to not take advantage of. Their business could conceivably be on the line.

You're certainly free to disagree or feel all the sympathy you want to for Facebook here, but I don't think most people would see it the same way.

Re: A letter from Paper (FiftyThree) to Paper (Facebook)

#89

Post by jawaddeo » Mon, Feb 03, 2014, 6:06 PM UTC

Please don't monopolise language! If you tell me I cannot use the word Paper any longer, I resent that deeply, even if Apple and others have done that. Paper is not distinctive enough, not even very imaginative, 'creative' dare I say, of an app that claims to be all about creativity.

Re: A letter from Paper (FiftyThree) to Paper (Facebook)

#90

Post by ig1 » Mon, Feb 03, 2014, 6:08 PM UTC

jimwalsh wrote: post #76

ynniv wrote: post #22

People are going to call the app by Facebook "Facebook Paper" because "Paper" is simply too generic. 53's drawing app name is not strong either. Their iOS app is not called "Paper", but "Paper by FiftyThree". Their icon is not of paper, but of a napkin style rendering of "53". For all intents, the drawing simulation brand name is "FiftyThree". There was a brief moment in history when people thought "I wonder if 53 wa…

"Windows", "Apple", aren't too generic. This is perfectly reasonable for 53 to ask this of Facebook.

The term "Windows" to refer to the GUI element was in common use from the 70s (the term WIMP was coined in 1980) long before Microsoft Windows was released.