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What Programming Languages Do You Struggle To Hire For?

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Re: What Programming Languages Do You Struggle To Hire For?

#81

Post by humanrebar »

vonmoltke wrote: post #74
humanrebar wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For good companies, laundry lists of skills are more like wish lists than requirements, especially with niche technologies. Use the job description to figure out what general kind of developer they're looking for (low level? database? UI? enterprise? team lead?) and apply if you're interested. Regarding the idea in your edit, huge companies like Facebook and Google do have coding puzzles and competitions. People who…

> For good companies, laundry lists of skills are more like wish lists than requirements, especially with niche technologies. No, for good companies requirements will be actual requirements and as such be fairly short, the rest if the list appearing as "bonus", "preferred", or other flexible adjective. I'm a former systems engineer who used to do requirements analysis, so I am a little sensitive to misuse of the word…

I can relate to that. But I'm willing to give companies a pass on a crappy job posting if the position itself is interesting.

Re: What Programming Languages Do You Struggle To Hire For?

#82

Post by mrweasel »

lportion wrote: post #7
jasonlotito wrote: post #2

We don't struggle to hire programmers for languages. The struggle is find programmers who understand the concepts we need them to understand. That, and Android developers.

Out of interest, what concepts are you talking about?

I would guess very basic stuff, dns, http, webserver ( not anyone in particular, just what they do really ), smtp ( apparently it's magic ), object orientation, software design in general. You'd be surprised how many people a doing web-development without knowing how the internet works.

) Being able to tell and smtp server from a POP3 or IMAP server is a rare ability.

Re: What Programming Languages Do You Struggle To Hire For?

#83

Post by memracom »

This is a fundamentally flawed way to hire. Once a developer has 7-10 years of experience, they should be able to learn a new language in a couple of weeks. If you need a Python developer then hire a Python or Ruby developer. If you need a Java developer then hire someone with C# or C++ experience. And once a developer has around 15 years experience, then their past languages don't really matter any more. If they are good at what they do, then they can be productive with new tools from day one. Sure they might be mostly doing code review those first two weeks while they get up to speed, but an experienced developer can provide valuable input to younger developers that provides value to the employer.

Fact is that we really don't know how to build effective developer teams in the long haul because we have been in an unusual time period where almost all developers have only a few years of experience in their first language.

Times are changing.

Re: What Programming Languages Do You Struggle To Hire For?

#85

Post by rch »

vonmoltke wrote: post #79
rch wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find linkedin to be relatively useless in this context. I need to be able to supply scores and weights to the various things I'm looking for, and to submitted job descriptions. I'd like to get at what candidates are looking for, not just what they have done. It makes sense to list Java and C# in a profile, but I'd give a bump to Python and Haskell opportunities, personally (others might do the opposite). Actual hir…

What you are describing sounds more like OKCupid for engineering jobs.

Maybe e-harmony, since it'd be double blind model-driven matching, but with near real time feedback while one is refining a set of preference parameters.

Re: What Programming Languages Do You Struggle To Hire For?

#86

Post by redblacktree »

humanrebar wrote: post #81
vonmoltke wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For good companies, laundry lists of skills are more like wish lists than requirements, especially with niche technologies. No, for good companies requirements will be actual requirements and as such be fairly short, the rest if the list appearing as "bonus", "preferred", or other flexible adjective. I'm a former systems engineer who used to do requirements analysis, so I am a little sensitive to misuse of the word…

I can relate to that. But I'm willing to give companies a pass on a crappy job posting if the position itself is interesting.

Especially since it was very likely written, or at least mangled, by HR staff.

Re: What Programming Languages Do You Struggle To Hire For?

#87

Post by bliti »

humanrebar wrote: post #68
bliti wrote: post #64

A lot of times it is the company's hiring process that is broken. I recently did a phone interview for a company and it was an absolute disaster right from the start. The interviewer started asking questions about specific Python functions/methods without even asking me about previous work experience. He was so adamant in trying to understand if I could program that he simply forgot to ask about me. This turned me of…

> They brought me in as a contractor for a short period of time and observed me work. I'm glad that worked out for you, but for the time being, contract work is much more complicated than it should be in the U.S. Expecting all future employees to work through a contracting period while paying double payroll taxes and sticker-prices for health insurance probably isn't reasonable. But as an option for potential employe…

Yes, I agree. It is complicated, but ultimately worth it if you are able to secure someone with my skill set/experience. It might not work for people fresh out of college, but for those of us with years of experience the work environment and insight into how management works is very important.

Re: What Programming Languages Do You Struggle To Hire For?

#88

Post by mooreds »

torbjorn wrote: post #84

Does anyone know how in demand Perl skills are? I am being asked to learn Perl by my employer and I am wondering how much real value it will add to my CV down the line.

what kind of Perl skills? sysadmin skills automating server tasks? web framework skills like mason? something else?

Re: What Programming Languages Do You Struggle To Hire For?

#89

Post by hfsktr »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #40
mrweasel wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're currently trying to hire one or two people in Aalborg, Denmark. Getting anyone with skills beyond C# or Java for a smallish company is next to impossible. We're looking for Python and/or Javascript skills, preferably working knowledge of Unix. We've gotten may one real application, it's strikes me as a bit strange, I would have loved to have had open positions like ours when I graduated. An open position in boo…

>> "Skilled software developer ( and yes you can be newly graduated ) will get us nothing" Maybe that's the problem. I'm a freelancer but anytime I've thought about applying for a full-time software developer position I get put off by words like 'skilled', 'senior', and a list of technologies the person needs to know that no single developer in the world knows. I've been coding for about 8 years, professionally for 5…

I haven't got nearly that much experience (in my opinion but just realized I have ~4 yrs...). Anyway if the job said X yrs/senior and was for a company that I really wanted (not just would) work for I would apply anyways.

Worst case they would reject me like other places but they might have had an opening for something lower and given me a chance.

Re: What Programming Languages Do You Struggle To Hire For?

#90

Post by gizmo686 »

luckydude wrote: post #54
nevir wrote: post #9

Don't hire someone for their knowledge in a specific language! (Unless you're doing some very core work in that language) Hire someone who knows the concepts behind most languages, and can easily understand new ones.

I agree that any decent programmer can pick up a new language pretty quickly. However, I think that it's not really about the language, it's more about the libraries. Knowing all the utility functions that exist and how to use them is based on experience, you don't pick that up overnight. tl;dr: bright inexperienced people pick up the language quickly and then rewrite library functions that already exist.

But experience in one language should give you a good idea on what library functions should exist (unless you are crossing paradigms). At this point, you can just search (or ask a co-worker) how do I do X in , and go on your way.
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