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Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

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Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#81

Post by hendzen »

run4_too wrote: post #66
callmeed wrote: post #62

The comments on this thread make me want to quit HN for good. I don't know Linda but I volunteered at RailsGirls in SF this past weekend. It was a wonderful experience and I'm hoping to organize one here in my area. I've got 4 kids (3 girls, 1 boy) and we do everything from LEGOs to making movies to programming to SnapCircuits to building robots. I'm excited about this book. Even if I wasn't, I honestly can't imagine…

Thanks for this comment. I thought I was the only one feeling this. I'd say this is a perfect example of why there aren't more women in computers. From what I've seen, a lot of women have a low tolerance for this level of overt critique, regardless of whether the critique is correct or not. There is nothing horrible about this project that warrants a negative view, particularly one that doesn't present any alternativ…

> From what I've seen, a lot of women have a low tolerance for this level of overt critique, regardless of whether the critique is correct or not.

Please stop talking.

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#82

Post by shangxiao »

callmeed wrote: post #62

The comments on this thread make me want to quit HN for good. I don't know Linda but I volunteered at RailsGirls in SF this past weekend. It was a wonderful experience and I'm hoping to organize one here in my area. I've got 4 kids (3 girls, 1 boy) and we do everything from LEGOs to making movies to programming to SnapCircuits to building robots. I'm excited about this book. Even if I wasn't, I honestly can't imagine…

I felt that the criticism was actually kind of light with the majority in support of the book.

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#83

Post by Avitas »

jaimebuelta wrote: post #64

When I was ~9, my parents bought me a book called "Wrote your own adventure programs for your microcomputer" [1] (Well, the Spanish version [2]) I remember reading and reading and reading it, and not understanding it... I tried to replicate some of the ideas, but I think it was quite dense (and the translation was not very good). The curious thing is that, when I properly started learning programming in college, I re…

"This is, IMHO, an entry point, to give a taste of what programming is, so kids can try themselves later in front of a computer."

- I suspect that this compartmentalized targeting (esp. to younger demographics) really should be explored with other projects...

...Arduino, BSD/Linux/*nix, Py, JS, and so forth.

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#84

Post by run4_too »

hendzen wrote: post #81
run4_too wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for this comment. I thought I was the only one feeling this. I'd say this is a perfect example of why there aren't more women in computers. From what I've seen, a lot of women have a low tolerance for this level of overt critique, regardless of whether the critique is correct or not. There is nothing horrible about this project that warrants a negative view, particularly one that doesn't present any alternativ…

> From what I've seen, a lot of women have a low tolerance for this level of overt critique, regardless of whether the critique is correct or not. Please stop talking.

Why? Do you find that uncomfortable?

A lot of women do. So do a lot of men. Computer science is filled with people on the poor side of "social skill set", and that rubs a lot of people the wrong way. That's why there are less women in the field - they simply aren't going to tolerate a default reaction that is insulting first and helpful only if you ignore the attitude.

Don't get me wrong, we turn off a lot of people - men and women - because of this, but we lose a lot more women, percentage wise.

And just a note: The irony of you telling me to "please stop talking" is, well, perfectly suited to the topic of our conversation.

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#85

Post by alxndr »

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #36

I think children will be better off reading _why's (poignant) guide instead, as it will teach them both the basics of common programming and give them a primer in avant-garde literature. That or stop treating kids like kids, give them some standard and classic books, bootstrap an environment and let them dive in.

I would have thought the poignant guide would be better to give to a teenager than a child. Even I found myself caring way more about the story and the author than the code.

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#87

Post by rimantas »

run4_too wrote: post #84
hendzen wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From what I've seen, a lot of women have a low tolerance for this level of overt critique, regardless of whether the critique is correct or not. Please stop talking.

Why? Do you find that uncomfortable? A lot of women do. So do a lot of men. Computer science is filled with people on the poor side of "social skill set", and that rubs a lot of people the wrong way. That's why there are less women in the field - they simply aren't going to tolerate a default reaction that is insulting first and helpful only if you ignore the attitude. Don't get me wrong, we turn off a lot of people…

You know, I think that socials skills are lacking those who are easily offended by anything.

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#88

Post by manish_gill »

conductr wrote: post #74
deveac wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any thoughts on the project itself?

Sure, it sounds just fine.... I couldn't sit through the video though I don't quite understand why kids need to be taught to want to build things. Most kids already want to build things. They just need an easy interface to accomplish a task and incrementally improve their creation. Before legos, did we need a kid book about masonry? Of course not, we just needed an easy and approachable type of block. I'm not meaning…

> I don't quite understand why kids need to be taught to want to build things. Most kids already want to build things.

I'm reminded of this quote by Neil Degrasse Tyson in one of his speeches: "Stop worrying about the kids! They're fine, they're already interested in Space. It's the grown ups I'm worried about."

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#89

Post by tinkerdol »

shangxiao wrote: post #82
callmeed wrote: post #62

The comments on this thread make me want to quit HN for good. I don't know Linda but I volunteered at RailsGirls in SF this past weekend. It was a wonderful experience and I'm hoping to organize one here in my area. I've got 4 kids (3 girls, 1 boy) and we do everything from LEGOs to making movies to programming to SnapCircuits to building robots. I'm excited about this book. Even if I wasn't, I honestly can't imagine…

I felt that the criticism was actually kind of light with the majority in support of the book.

Agreed. And since when is criticism a bad thing, esp. on HN? Especially since most of it here seemed meant to start a discussion, as in "I'm not sure this is the best way to teach programming, wouldn't X be better."

I thought this would be a worthwhile discussion to have as opposed to only useless "OMG this is the BEST thing ever" comments.

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#90

Post by nonrecursive »

run4_too wrote: post #84
hendzen wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From what I've seen, a lot of women have a low tolerance for this level of overt critique, regardless of whether the critique is correct or not. Please stop talking.

Why? Do you find that uncomfortable? A lot of women do. So do a lot of men. Computer science is filled with people on the poor side of "social skill set", and that rubs a lot of people the wrong way. That's why there are less women in the field - they simply aren't going to tolerate a default reaction that is insulting first and helpful only if you ignore the attitude. Don't get me wrong, we turn off a lot of people…

I can't speak for hendzen, but your suggestion that women avoid tech because they're not as thick-skinned as men -- as opposed to being constantly exposed to hostility -- can easily be perceived as offensive. It sounds like you're propagating the myth that women are delicate flowers who just aren't as tough as men, which is part of what allows men to continue getting away with bad behavior.
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