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Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

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Re: Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

#81

Post by Fomite »

nathanvanfleet wrote: post #68
conductr wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious: Do these problems exist in other countries where even strong antibiotics are sold OTC? I would guess not as bad, the culture in the US is to medicate immediately at first sign of illness. When I get sick, I try to just let it run it's course.

Or does it exist in places where medical care is cheap or free (Canada or the UK)?

Having recently been to an international Epidemiology conference, I can say that there's intense interest/concern from researchers in the UK and Europe about both MRSA and carbapenem-resistant Enterobacteriaceae.

For that matter, the current strain of C. difficile which is causing so many problems was first observed in the UK and Canada.

Re: Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

#82

Post by mberning »

cosmic_shame wrote: post #32
mberning wrote: post #11

I have successfully diagnosed and treated MRSA and upper respiratory infections in myself. I NEVER suggest anybody else to self medicate. Most people do not take it seriously enough or do enough research to self medicate. All that being said, I think it is a shame that we live in a system where it is so expensive and inconvenient to see a real doctor that people resort to this kind of thing.

Really, you successfully diagnosed yourself with MRSA as opposed to a methicillin-susceptible Staph infection? And how exactly did you do that? Non response to one antibiotic? This is exactly the problem with people self treating. Without a proper workup, which in this case would have likely involved some sort of diagnostic microbiology, people end up over- or mistreating themselves.

I was able to recognize the symptoms based on my previous experience and some reading. I had it previously and the doctor was able to diagnose it on sight. No testing was required.

Re: Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

#83

Post by Fomite »

pessimizer wrote: post #58
squirejons wrote: post #24

I predict that the corporate media will run with this story and that as a consequence this source of medicine will soon disappear. We cannot have the profits of our Most Holy Corporations drop. Cheap antibiotics will cause a drop in the Most Holy Profits of Our Sacred Corporations, and That Is Not Permissible.

>Cheap antibiotics will cause a drop in the Most Holy Profits of Our Sacred Corporations The opposite is true: with bacteria resistant to ancient antibiotics that are out of patent and work in weeks, the only alternative will be treatment for months or years with heavily patented drugs of dubious effectiveness and long hospital stays. Is that your preferred outcome?

Not to mention treatment for the side effects. Our last ditch antibiotics are not gentle drugs.

Re: Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

#84

Post by apendleton »

tptacek wrote: post #72
apendleton wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A really determined person could probably do almost all of those at home if they really wanted to, with the exception of the sensitivity test and PCR. A makeshift incubator wouldn't be that hard to fashion, TSA plates are cheap, gram stain kits are relatively cheap, and you can do a catalase test with hydrogen peroxide. I guess you'd need a decent microscope, but the hypothetical person that's gram staining their own…

'carbocation is too nice to say it, but I'm not nice at all, so I will: the point is that it's hard to diagnose MRSA even if you have expertise and a full lab, and so it's nearly certain that the commenter above didn't actually "self-diagnose MRSA".

Oh, definitely. I'm just saying listing the steps in the diagnosis isn't, in and of itself, convincing, since most of them aren't actually that hard (and like carbocation says, you end up doing most of them in a college bio class), so at least figuring out that you have a staph infection isn't completely implausible (though like I said, the "MR" part of MRSA is probably harder).

It's still unlikely, though, firstly because PCR is hard, and secondly, because what person willing to go to that much effort wouldn't just go to the doctor?

Re: Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

#85

Post by guard-of-terra »

angersock wrote: post #59
squirejons wrote: post #24

I predict that the corporate media will run with this story and that as a consequence this source of medicine will soon disappear. We cannot have the profits of our Most Holy Corporations drop. Cheap antibiotics will cause a drop in the Most Holy Profits of Our Sacred Corporations, and That Is Not Permissible.

Increasing access to antibiotics is not necessarily a good thing.

Let people decide. If they want antibiotics: sell it to them.

Re: Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

#86

Post by nanidin »

maxerickson wrote: post #51
mynegation wrote: post #47

Or go to India, or Russia. Antibiotics are sold over the counter and (at least in case of India last time I checked) are dirt cheap.

A lot of antibiotics in the U.S. are basically free. For instance, Walmart has a $4 prescription program: http://www.walmart.com/cp/PI-4-Prescriptions/1078664 Lots of other places have similar programs/prices. So the expensive part is getting the prescription.

The final uninsured cost being closer to $100 :(

Re: Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

#87

Post by guard-of-terra »

noonespecial wrote: post #13

Notice our friend was already in a world of hurt by the time he went for help. Not only had he likely made his infection worse by helping it build tolerance while misdosing random antibiotics, even if he hadn't, he made it worse by waiting to get professional care. Antibiotics are a balancing game of just the right dose. I suppose vet medicine is better than nothing at all in dire straights but if its at all possible…

But on the other hand he skipped going to a doctor and maybe paying for the privilege.

I think he should have right to bet on it. Most times he will win.

I think that most limitations on sale of medications are bad for people and should be lifted.

I'm also not so sure that people doctors are so good.

I fail to understand how commanding people what to do with their own body is suddently okay when it comes to medicine.

Re: Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

#88

Post by angersock »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #85
angersock wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Increasing access to antibiotics is not necessarily a good thing.

Let people decide. If they want antibiotics: sell it to them.

No, because people are idiots and have no concept of how overuse of antibiotics reduces their utility.

People, as a whole and on average, are terrible at judging long-term costs and overuse.

Now, if the product was priced to properly reflect negative externalities of use and abuse, maybe. But, that's not going to happen.

Re: Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

#89

Post by dragonwriter »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #85
angersock wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Increasing access to antibiotics is not necessarily a good thing.

Let people decide. If they want antibiotics: sell it to them.

Do the phrases "Negative externalities" or "Tragedy of the Commons" mean anythign to you?

The harms from antibiotic overuse don't go to the people doing the overusing.

Re: Obtaining Antibiotics without a Prescription (2002)

#90

Post by guard-of-terra »

dragonwriter wrote: post #89
guard-of-terra wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let people decide. If they want antibiotics: sell it to them.

Do the phrases "Negative externalities" or "Tragedy of the Commons" mean anythign to you? The harms from antibiotic overuse don't go to the people doing the overusing.

Then limit yourself! Or better, your mom.

You can try to limit animal antibiotics use but that industry can fight back.

People, you persuade. Nobody have to preserve your commons for you. If you want that field be green, what are you willing to spend?

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