Only if we can call ourselves 'Agents of S.H.E.L.L.'.
Better than CREEP.
An Open Letter to HN from EFF, Demand Progress, and Cory Doctorow
81–90 of 106 posts
Re: An Open Letter to HN from EFF, Demand Progress, and Cory Doctorow
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
>U.S. surveillance problem As long as people are willing to pretend that the problem is only the US and not the entire West colluding then the easier it is for these governments to continue.
Case in point, the Canadian government is currently building "the most expensive government building ever constructed in Canada" for CSEC (our version of the NSA) and vastly expanding their headcount: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/inside-canada-s-top-secret-b... And GCHQ has less significantly legal restrictions than most other SIGINT agencies.
I feel like the cost is always overblown about this building if you consider the fact that they are currently housed in a building originally designed for the CBC in the '60s and not for actual security work. Given the expansion of their operations and personnel, it only makes sense to create a new building (not coincidentally beside CSIS). And generally speaking, it's going to cost what it's going to cost. Yes it's a government building. Yes they've spent money on particular luxury items (identified as being used to increase social interaction). But if you want people working more effectively and efficiently, you're going to spend money to increase morale (just look at all the lavish spending at startups or ones that are even IPOing, they're all expenses that, at the end of the day, may not be good in the eyes of the shareholders. But they help employee morale).
Re: An Open Letter to HN from EFF, Demand Progress, and Cory Doctorow
#83We begin therefore where they are determined not to end, with the question whether any form of democratic self-government, anywhere, is consistent with the kind of massive, pervasive, surveillance into which the Unites States government has led not only us but the world.
This should not actually be a complicated inquiry.
http://snowdenandthefuture.info/events.html
http://benjamin.sonntag.fr/Moglen-at-Re-Publica-Freedom-of-t...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ciscosystemsrouteratcern....
Re: An Open Letter to HN from EFF, Demand Progress, and Cory Doctorow
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
I feel like the more we talk about it, the more everyone becomes desensitized to the U.S. surveillance problem. Then we get the public at large just rolling their eyes and saying "Oh, another paranoid lunatic wants to take over the government". I want to do more than just like stuff on facebook... hopefully this will present something more tangible. I signed up for the "Add a banner to your site" list. I can tell ~15…
>U.S. surveillance problem As long as people are willing to pretend that the problem is only the US and not the entire West colluding then the easier it is for these governments to continue.
I for one would like to include the other players,Corporate & private industry, with their collusion/lobbying/takeover of lawmaking added to the discussion. Don't forget, when the [Pick-An-Acronym &/or Pick-A-Branch] wasn't doing their own spying, [MaBell, AT&T, Axciom, MS, Dunn&B, Google, etc] were selling the data to them.
More relevant today than when it aired almost a decade ago...
Re: An Open Letter to HN from EFF, Demand Progress, and Cory Doctorow
#85Perhaps I'm missing something, but is there anything actually being planned aside from... a website? It's good that people are trying to do something, but putting up banners on the web and starting yet another website isn't doing something.
Are you going to organize rallies? Provide logistical support for people who want to do so? Even a snail mail campaign would be an improvement over Yet Another Complaint On The Internet.
Don't get me wrong: The cause is great, and drawing attention and support to it is important. But this might as well be a high-profile version of trolling a forum. It's not going to help anything unless you take action that will reach the people in charge and the people who might not currently be aware of what's going on and how important it is.
I don't see this doing much of either.
Re: An Open Letter to HN from EFF, Demand Progress, and Cory Doctorow
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
You mean how shutting the a site down for a day actually showed people what would happen if SOPA passed? Wikipedia participated in the SOPA protest, wikipedias users did not, they were impacted by Wikipedia's participation. That seems EXACTLY like changing your avatar and spamming Facebook. How does spamming Facebook or changing your avatar show the effects of the NSA's spying? That is how it is useless. It does noth…
Part of the issue with mass surveillance is that a lot of people don't know about it / don't understand how it affects them. Anything that helps more people to start understanding and caring about this issue will push lawmakers toward doing the right thing and curtailing it.
> don't understand how it affects them
And this doesn't change that.
> helps more people to start understanding and caring
And this does nothing of the sort.
That's why it's useless. It is the very definition of slacktivism.
Re: An Open Letter to HN from EFF, Demand Progress, and Cory Doctorow
#87I strongly disagree with the way you're using Aaron Swartz / his memory here.
Re: An Open Letter to HN from EFF, Demand Progress, and Cory Doctorow
#88As someone who has done a fair amount of activism and advocacy work, I'll say this: Over the last 6 months, I've seen a number of people make comments on relevant HN posts to the effect of "This sucks, but how do we actually change anything" This is what you've been waiting for - here's a chance to actually do something about it. Don't be discouraged when things seem to be standing still. Because of the way our minds…
Maybe Hacker News should get its own lobby group, in all seriousness. Politics in DC is about money - it's about legally bribing politicians - until that changes lobbying is the best way to fight back.
Re: An Open Letter to HN from EFF, Demand Progress, and Cory Doctorow
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
Frankly, U.S. Congressmen don't care what foreigners think about U.S. surveillance policy. Foreigners aren't going to vote them out of office. I think the EFF, etc. are wise to focus their limited resources in ways that maximize their chances of being heard. The Snowden revelations make clear that U.S. citizens are not protected against surveillance by their own government. Just because foreigners are less protected…
Frankly, U.S. Congressmen don't care what foreigners think about U.S. surveillance policy. Frankly, U.S. Congressmen don't care what Americans think about U.S. surveillance policy.
US Congressmen care about what the money thinks about the US surveillance policy.
The tech industry has more money now than anybody else outside of finance, including the oil industry. It's that simple. Use it.
Re: An Open Letter to HN from EFF, Demand Progress, and Cory Doctorow
#90With all due respect, using Aaron Schwartz's case about copyright as motivator for the case against surveillance seems weird. Why do you even need some personification?
As stated by others, Aaron happened to be involved in a copyright issue relating to his legal situation. But his most significant impact on the world is not about copyright specifically but freedom in general. He founded Demand Progress and was key in the fight against SOPA. That's the significance.