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Code != computer science

ultrasaurus.com

81–90 of 148 posts

Re: Code != computer science

#81
If you code and develop in it, you're bound to hit computer science whether officially or informally. Because if you don't, you aren't really coding: you're just staying at your comfort zone and that's no more coding than learning to play a dozen songs with piano and just playing those over and over is not really playing piano.

On the other hand, if your background is top-notch computer science you just may suck at coding ― which would be just ok except that I suggest that not many advances in computer science happen unless the dilemmas at hand stem from practical programming problems, after which they can be explained and modelled theoretically and theoretical solutions be devised.

Re: Code != computer science

#82

Fundamentally,computer science = data structures + algorithms. in a data structure class,you learn the basic structures like PODs,structs,vectors and linked lists. in algorithm class,you learn various basic sorting algorithms plus the big O notation and thats pretty much it. Then you will take a few physics classes,then chemistry classes,then maybe calculus one and two,then probably discrete mathematics class,one or…

Fundamentally,computer science = data structures + algorithms.

You know, I keep hearing that, but nobody has ever been able to convince me of it. Those are, indeed, the things that fall sideways out of "computer science" (for want of a better name), but it's a near-equivalent to the statement fundamentally, fluid dynamics = boats and airplanes.

"Computer science" is about developing a method for reasoning about process. For the most part, we're still stuck in a world where intuition plays a larger role than it ought to when developing processes, both in the computing world and in the physical world. Investigations into process have yielded algorithms and heuristics (what to do), of course, and those, in turn, depend upon data structures (what to do it to), but we're still pretty much at the level where we're dealing with specific instances rather than a more general formal language. Chemistry without knowing much about the atom yet, in a way.

What you learn in school (at least at the undergrad level) is "here's what we've found out so far" (as it is in any subject). And while that can be a big help, allowing you to more easily recognise classes of problems, there is still more intuition than reason involved in attacking the really hard problems. Both "software engineering" and "computer science" are about reducing the amount of fuzzy, squishy, intuitive parts, but in different ways. "Software engineering" is about robust application (finding and understanding the use of the equivalent of "materials" in the field); "computer science" is about understanding the fundamentals of process (and may well extend beyond computing).

Re: Code != computer science

#83
A 4 year degree is only valuable if you actually had the mental maturity to take advantage of it at the time (I didn't). Unfortunately, that doesn't seem true with the majority of the kids graduating from high school. They see it as just another hoop to jump through.

If someone told me now that I can spend 4 years just learning things, have access to intelligent people, and great resources/facilities without worrying about a gap in my cv, I would jump at that chance.

I am going to hacker school in Feb, so hopefully it will be kind of like that. Albeit for a much shorter amount of time (3 months).

Re: Code != computer science

#84
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well if you think of it, a CEO like Steve Jobs will call the PC a truck... to sell the iPad. • Computer Science = Truck • Treehouse = iPad But how do you make iPad dev tools?

> But how do you make iPad dev tools? The same way you make a real-world video editing suite work on an iPhone and have the guts to make that your seasonal and campaign: in a careful and considerate fashion without trying to be all things to all people. That said, if I had an editable Chrome dev tools on a tablet I'd be 50% of the way there some days. :) And ... Don't read too much in the car/truck comment. Eventuall…

> Eventually even smart phones will behave like supercomputers.

I just had a vision of a Paralella board as the main CPU for a mobile phone... wow, that would be neat.

Re: Code != computer science

#85
post #44
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in academia simply don't care about the quality of one particular implementation of their ideas. There's no value judgement here, it's just not their job to write and maintain good software. Just as it's not a mathematician's job to maintain a cryptographic protocol or a physicist's job to keep a satellite in orbit. The people who went to schools with strong research programs are trained by people in that mind…

That last bit sounds amazing and highly valuable. I go to a well regarded top CS school and I regret that we don't have something like that in our curriculum that forces people to write multi-thousand-lines of code with a team and maintain it. Our EE program has something like that where you choose a team and build something with them over the course of a semester while having an "advisor". At the end you make a repo…

Science != engineering.

Engineers take what scientists discover and create and design solutions based on that. Computer science is not about engineering a large software solution. Rather it's about discovering and creating algorithms and techniques that engineers can use to design solutions.

Much of the comments to this article seem to be happy to mix the roles of "technician", "engineer", and "scientist" when they are in fact very, very different.

Re: Code != computer science

#86
post #4

> Treehouse CEO Ryan Carson declares “A computer science degree is a rip off…I know because I have one.” Perhaps his CS degree was from a college which didn’t have a very good program or maybe his focus has been web development where you rarely need computer science. According to wikipedia: > In 2000, he graduated from Colorado State University with a Computer Science degree I suspect, like with most fields, that the…

"... how much you learn in college depends a lot more on you than the college. A determined party animal can get through the best school without learning anything. And someone with a real thirst for knowledge will be able to find a few smart people to learn from at a school that isn't prestigious at all." - PG

Have to agree with this. How good you are at coding is more related to the number of hours you put in than grades or school. People who enjoy coding have the advantage of being able to spend more hours before getting tired/bored, and thus become better coders than top CS graduates who are just trying to pass college.

Re: Code != computer science

#87
post #20

I look at this from the other side as well. I've worked with brilliant people with ivy league CS degrees who wrote much messier and less maintainable code than me, an autodidact designer/js dev with 1.5 years of experience. Maybe I'm wrong, and there was something in their code that I wasn't seeing, but I don't think so. There can also be a bit of an attitude, like the person is thinking "of course this is good, I we…

I'm guessing the downvotes are there (not that I downvoted) because there's absolutely no reason that someone with a CS background can't also be a craftsperson.

There's a difference in approach between academic CS and practical software engineering, yes, but a decent CS grad should be able to pick up both.

Sounds like you worked with people who just weren't as good as they thought they were at that part of it :)

Re: Code != computer science

#88
post #20

I look at this from the other side as well. I've worked with brilliant people with ivy league CS degrees who wrote much messier and less maintainable code than me, an autodidact designer/js dev with 1.5 years of experience. Maybe I'm wrong, and there was something in their code that I wasn't seeing, but I don't think so. There can also be a bit of an attitude, like the person is thinking "of course this is good, I we…

This is totally true. I am honestly blown away by how little focus Universities have on coding as compared to Computer Science. I understand that the degree is called "Computer Science" and not "Coding/Programming".... But it would be immensely useful career-wise if they focused on at least some Coding aspects (style, readability, code-reviews, etc.).

Re: Code != computer science

#89
Computer science == models of computing. One of those models is language. We can run machines without codes, but with feelings and images. We, human beings, are just complex finite automata with very complex states and meta-states.

Re: Code != computer science

#90
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That last bit sounds amazing and highly valuable. I go to a well regarded top CS school and I regret that we don't have something like that in our curriculum that forces people to write multi-thousand-lines of code with a team and maintain it. Our EE program has something like that where you choose a team and build something with them over the course of a semester while having an "advisor". At the end you make a repo…

Science != engineering. Engineers take what scientists discover and create and design solutions based on that. Computer science is not about engineering a large software solution. Rather it's about discovering and creating algorithms and techniques that engineers can use to design solutions. Much of the comments to this article seem to be happy to mix the roles of "technician", "engineer", and "scientist" when they a…

There are certain aspects of engineering which are definitely science. Science really is just the production of new knowledge with hard facts.
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