Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Has Microsoft Gone Nuts?

mobileopportunity.blogspot.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 99 posts

Re: Has Microsoft Gone Nuts?

#81

Post by ufmace »

nine_k wrote: post #26
shin_lao wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are underestimating the quality of Windows Phone devices. We'll see what I happens, but I wouldn't write Microsoft off the mobile market yet. Edit: market share is around 10% in five European countries according to this: http://www.kantarworldpanel.com/global/News/news-articles/Ap...

While WM7 may be quite fine (I heard this multiple times from real users), it would take long time and much effort to acquire enough mindshare. What WM devices lack is a killer feature . They are just another fine smartphone line, unfortunately incompatible with software for market leaders, Android and iOS. With this regard, Jolla looks about as good, and it runs Android apps, too.

I don't think even a killer feature would help that much at this point, due to the lock-in iOS and Android have at this point, in the form of enormous app catalogs. If they had the current Windows Phone with a killer feature or 2 around when the Verizon Droid came out, then they might have taken the market instead of Android, but I think it's too late now. They're doomed to a ~10% or so market share for the foreseeable future, much like Apple was in the 90s, and for pretty much the same reason, interestingly enough.

Re: Has Microsoft Gone Nuts?

#82

Post by ebbv »

dangrossman wrote: post #50
ebbv wrote: post #4

If Nokia's going to continue to exist they need to sell phones. Windows phones aren't selling. An Android one might. They have to take the shot. Giving away Windows Phone/RT might encourage other hardware vendors to try it. Maybe they won't. But they definitely won't if Microsoft tries to charge them for it. Again, worth the shot when they have nothing to lose. It might be crazy if Windows Phone/RT were runaway succe…

> Microsoft nonetheless has to be happy that Nokia has blown past Motorola to become America’s No. 4 smartphone vendor. According to new data from Counterpoint Research, Nokia’s share of the American smartphone market has surged from a mere 1.4% in the second quarter of 2013 to 4.1% in the third quarter. http://bgr.com/2013/11/01/nokia-us-smartphone-market-share/

Going from being nearly dead to not quite dead is not the same as being healthy.

Re: Has Microsoft Gone Nuts?

#83

Post by nine_k »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #48
nine_k wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While WM7 may be quite fine (I heard this multiple times from real users), it would take long time and much effort to acquire enough mindshare. What WM devices lack is a killer feature . They are just another fine smartphone line, unfortunately incompatible with software for market leaders, Android and iOS. With this regard, Jolla looks about as good, and it runs Android apps, too.

>>>> What WM devices lack is a killer feature. They are just another fine smartphone line. This is pretty much the case for any smartphone. A "killer feature" for me is something other than taking pictures and video, running apps, making calls and texting. I have yet to find a phone that has something besides these 5 basic features. Microsoft has always been dominant in the enterprise market so the retail game is not…

The killer feature of iPhone was everything about it.

The killer feature of Blackberry was keyboard and excellent corporate user support.

The killer feature of Android was openness and much lower prices.

What makes WM stand out? They need it.

Re: Has Microsoft Gone Nuts?

#84

Post by felipeerias »

pantalaimon wrote: post #12
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #3

How is this nuts? These are all smart moves as the personal pc landscape is changing and moving toward mobile devices. Making your desktop users happy with ye olde start menu and giving away WP are very smart moves. MS still will make a lot of money of its patent portfolio via android and its own WP app store. Selling an OS is an outdated concept and everyone knows it.

Why do people repeat saying that "the personal pc landscape is […] moving toward mobile devices"? I don't know anyone who stopped using their PC just because they got a tablet or smartphone. Sure there is a decline in sales for PCs because the market is saturated and for the most people, unless they are gamers, their 5 year old computer will do just fine. Yet people keep shouting that the days of the desktop computer…

"the “computing” market in Q3 2008 was 92 million units of which Windows[3] was 90% whereas in Q3 2013 it was 269 million units of which Windows was 32%."

http://www.asymco.com/2013/10/10/the-five-year-plan/

Re: Has Microsoft Gone Nuts?

#85

Post by at-fates-hands »

nine_k wrote: post #83
at-fates-hands wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>>> What WM devices lack is a killer feature. They are just another fine smartphone line. This is pretty much the case for any smartphone. A "killer feature" for me is something other than taking pictures and video, running apps, making calls and texting. I have yet to find a phone that has something besides these 5 basic features. Microsoft has always been dominant in the enterprise market so the retail game is not…

The killer feature of iPhone was everything about it. The killer feature of Blackberry was keyboard and excellent corporate user support. The killer feature of Android was openness and much lower prices. What makes WM stand out? They need it.

>>>> What makes WM stand out? They need it.

Are you serious?

1) Let's start with the interface which didn't completely copy iOS like Android and BB did.

2) Live Tiles - which neither Android or iOS have

3) Nevermind Android or iOS don't have live tiles, you can also make the tiles small, med, or lg depending on the app. Again, something neither platform has.

4) Built in feature Data Sense which conserves your data usage and lets you know which apps are using the most data. Not available on Android or iOS

5) Built in support for Office. Available on both android and iOS - but for a fee though.

6) 41 megapixel camera? Oh yeah, only available on a Nokia WP8 handset.

So yeah, if you actually look at the features and benefits of WP8, you'd see that stuff too. Most people just write it off, but I give them cred since they didn't just jump on the iOS bandwagon. They really built a separate, independent OS that stands on its own. You can't say that about Android.

Re: Has Microsoft Gone Nuts?

#86

Post by nknighthb »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #85
nine_k wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The killer feature of iPhone was everything about it. The killer feature of Blackberry was keyboard and excellent corporate user support. The killer feature of Android was openness and much lower prices. What makes WM stand out? They need it.

>>>> What makes WM stand out? They need it. Are you serious? 1) Let's start with the interface which didn't completely copy iOS like Android and BB did. 2) Live Tiles - which neither Android or iOS have 3) Nevermind Android or iOS don't have live tiles, you can also make the tiles small, med, or lg depending on the app. Again, something neither platform has. 4) Built in feature Data Sense which conserves your data us…

1) "Different" is insufficient. The UI on my cable company's DVRs is much different from my TiVo DVRs, but that makes it "stand out" in much the same way a rusty nail sticks out of an old board on the ground ready to stab your foot.

2&3) An anti-feature. One Android actually has, unfortunately, adopted to some degree.

4) I don't know how it "conserves" data usage, but both iOS and Android absolutely do tell you how much data each app uses, and iOS at least lets you disable cellular data usage for specific apps.

5) An increasingly irrelevant office suite. Couldn't care less.

6) A marketing gimmick for the uninformed. Packing more pixels into a smaller sensor only goes so far when your optics are hamstrung by a fixed aperture and the need to fit in a pocket.

Re: Has Microsoft Gone Nuts?

#87

Post by tstrimple »

corresation wrote: post #71
tstrimple wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree completely. That's essentially the way things were a few years ago. A big part of Microsoft's problems, both internal and external, come from the fiefdoms that sprung up around the different divisions. They were effectively different companies with the same CEO. They rarely communicated well and this lead to a lot of unnecessary duplication of work. Microsoft is now on a path to unifying the ecosystem and…

Using a Windows Phone, Windows Tablet and Xbox all feel very similar. None of that happens with different companies. Why should a game machine, controlled by a gamepad, operate anything like a touchscreen smartphone, or a keyboard and mouse controlled desktop? There is absolutely no value to that , and it is exactly what is being pointed out as the problem with Microsoft: Everything hinges on trying to leverage and p…

A game machine controlled by a gamepad is almost identical to a touchscreen smartphone (Windows Phone 8) or a touchscreen tablet (Windows 8) with the exception of lack of gestures. You essentially move the pointing device (finger or selection box) over the tile you want to activate and press it. They aren't as radically different as you imply. The Windows Phone, Windows 8 Metro (on touch screens and tablets) and Xbox One UI are all great and very information dense compared to what you see on competing devices.

For the second part, only DNA from your list is an effort to unify the platform and it has been superseded by .NET. Are you seriously going to argue that .NET hasn't been successful in unifying development across the ecosystem? There are still a number of API differences between Windows Phone and Windows 8, but they are converging. The same with Xbox. Are you going to argue that being able to reuse all of the code behind an app's user interface across all of Microsoft's products isn't a good direction to move?

Re: Has Microsoft Gone Nuts?

#88

Post by mark_integerdsv »

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #31
tptacek wrote: post #6

Microsoft isn't nuts. They simply missed mobile. Microsoft almost missed the Internet, and retained some of their dominance only after decisive top-down action and investment. By the time Microsoft understood what was happening in mobile, it was too late. The fiasco was compounded by Ballmer's indecisive reaction, but it was already set in motion. Anything Microsoft does with mobile, perhaps short of something that l…

> Microsoft isn't nuts. Yep. Their spectacular mediocrity is only now being revealed, that's all. Look, they've been great simply by virtue of being in the right place at the right time. There was an incredibly TREMENDOUS hidden demand for a PC and an operating system for it, and MS happened to be there at the time. A half-blind monkey in the same place at the same time would have made a truckload of money too. It wa…

Although I share your sentiment in this regard there is something you have overlooked IMO.

Now I can't put my finger on it exactly but... Spreadsheets.

Seriously.

Spreadsheets are most likely the original reason that anyone ever needed a PC.

MS certainly did not miss that boat and a large part of their dominance today is centered around Excel and more recently SQL.

The OS is almost incidental.

MS does understand that value of being able to store and exploit data.

I hope I have put my point clearly enough, I'm aware that I haven't articulated it very well at all.

Re: Has Microsoft Gone Nuts?

#89

Post by tstrimple »

steven2012 wrote: post #75
tstrimple wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree completely. That's essentially the way things were a few years ago. A big part of Microsoft's problems, both internal and external, come from the fiefdoms that sprung up around the different divisions. They were effectively different companies with the same CEO. They rarely communicated well and this lead to a lot of unnecessary duplication of work. Microsoft is now on a path to unifying the ecosystem and…

It's great for people who want to be in the Windows ecosystem. The problem is, almost no one wants a completely Windows experience anymore. Microsoft is great at strategically leveraging their monopoly and creating a forced marriage between two separate experiences, and making both of them worse, much like forcing IE into Windows, Windows Mobile into Windows 8, etc. The problem for Microsoft is that this is no longer…

Whether a person wants a completely Windows experience or not has no bearing on unification being beneficial overall.

I personally don't believe that they are worse experiences. The Windows Phone UI is loved by pretty much everyone who uses it. It's a similar story with Windows 8. Read reviews from people who are actually using the operating system and not just reacting out of fear of change.

One of Microsoft's strengths is how diverse their portfolio is. Adding to that the fact that Microsoft products are working together now better than they ever have before. Breaking the company apart is simply ridiculous.

Re: Has Microsoft Gone Nuts?

#90

Post by steven2012 »

tstrimple wrote: post #89
steven2012 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's great for people who want to be in the Windows ecosystem. The problem is, almost no one wants a completely Windows experience anymore. Microsoft is great at strategically leveraging their monopoly and creating a forced marriage between two separate experiences, and making both of them worse, much like forcing IE into Windows, Windows Mobile into Windows 8, etc. The problem for Microsoft is that this is no longer…

Whether a person wants a completely Windows experience or not has no bearing on unification being beneficial overall. I personally don't believe that they are worse experiences. The Windows Phone UI is loved by pretty much everyone who uses it. It's a similar story with Windows 8. Read reviews from people who are actually using the operating system and not just reacting out of fear of change. One of Microsoft's stren…

You are free to believe what you want. However, Windows 8 is an unmitigated disaster. Surface is an unmitigated disaster. Windows Phone is absolutely ignored. Bing is largely ignored. Internet Explorer has lost large swaths of marketshare.

Microsoft is trying to unify an experience that no one cares about. They're building products that no one wants to use. And the reason no one wants to use them is because they are being stymied by this ridiculous notion that they would have a common experience, but an experience that no one wants to use because they are stymied.

When Surface came out, I very much wanted to buy one for my parents, because it looked like exactly what they needed. I spent 45 mins at the Microsoft Store, and I didn't end up getting it. It was terrible. Sometimes, I didn't understand which way to swipe, I didn't understand why there was Flash but some websites wouldn't work, and then sometimes I would get the Windows task bar, and didn't know why. Compare this to the iPad which is almost a perfect experience, because it's so much easier to use.

Microsoft has stymied themselves by trying to take the core Windows experience, and then hammering it into the tablet experience. And then they take this really shitty experience, and then hammer that back into the desktop experience. It's like taking a photocopy of a photocopy.

If they allowed their teams to make the best product they could, they might succeed in the same way Google has succeeded. But forcing everyone to pray at the temple of Windows is what is ruining Microsoft in 2013 and beyond. They need to split up and forget this unification delusion.

Post reply on HN