Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers • Hacker News Board

Re: Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers

#81

Post by dwaltrip » Tue, Dec 10, 2013, 11:46 AM UTC

CmonDev wrote: post #80

dwaltrip wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life isn't fair. People are born into random circumstances outside of their control that vastly affect the quality and direction of their life. Sociey has developed in an imperfect fashion, and has many issues. These problems are complex, and there is no silver bullet. Some people are trying to create a positive impact, and hopefully make things a little better. Meanwhile, you sit here bitching about "reverse discrim…

How about "Google sponsors over $150k of grants for programmers with most open source contributions" or "Google sponsors over $150k of grants for programmers that win an online hackaton for newbies" or "Google sponsors over $150k of grants for programmers with best school grades or most impressive hobby projects"?

Don't they do many of these types of things? I highly doubt this is is their only grant. Also, how do you determine what is too much and too little to put towards a certain issue? Seems a little presumptuous.

Re: Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers

#82

Post by belorn » Tue, Dec 10, 2013, 11:56 AM UTC

ceol wrote: post #69

belorn wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Checking for similar grants such as the one by google, I found ( http://www.ehow.com/info_8641285_grants-male-teachers.html ). It was interesting that none of the grants are "if you are male, thats it. Here is a bunch of money". It is either for teacher that are willing to cater to students from low-income families, or African American male teachers. I guess Google could add a condition to their grant, in which only…

Google's grant doesn't give women a whole bunch of money solely on the basis of being a woman. They have to first qualify for Hacker School, and then they have to qualify for financial aid. Once they do all that, they get some money to help cover expenses while attending the school. > or African American male teachers. So then, what's the problem? They're still men, which is apparently the defining factor. That comme…

You really aren't informed on this topic are you? Have you not seen the discussion about transsexuals and grants given to a specific gender. Sometimes, gender has nothing to do with genitalia, and sometimes it do. It depend, and has been discussed several times in the past.

> little bit racist

You seems a bit out of your depth here. What are you talking about?

Do you have a problem that grants to students are given on the specifics of someone being of the racial and ethnic minority called African American, and is male? Are you a racist? (and feel free to speculate if a answer "yes", or an answer "no" to the first question qualify as an yes or no to the second. Personally, I don't think the first question has anything to do with the second, but it does makes you look a bit petty and a little bit racist to be honest.

Re: Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers

#83

Post by belorn » Tue, Dec 10, 2013, 12:04 PM UTC

sanxiyn wrote: post #44

belorn wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to increase the proportion of people in the tech industry who are women, do out reach, eliminate glass ceilings in management, and sponsor research into industry causes of gender bias. Doing gender discriminations to "counter" gender discriminations is neither a good or effective way. It's lazy, and only causes more harm.

As I understand this is an outreach program, isn't it?

No. An outreach is used to fill in the gap in the services provided by mainstream in order to reach groups who otherwise would not be aware of existing services.

A grant system is intended to convince people to join a program which they are aware of, but for economical reasons would not choose.

One could argue that by creating "buzz", it has a secondary effect that causes outreach. Secondary effects however are not reliable, and using actually outreach to create outreach is to me a much better way than hoping that buzz create outreach.

Re: Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers

#84

Post by ps4fanboy » Tue, Dec 10, 2013, 12:38 PM UTC

ceol wrote: post #49

jrs99 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the point everyone is making is that there is a white male out there that is poor and doesn't have the resources, time, and educational background, but has the intelligence, work ethic, and desire to learn more and get a job as a programmer. But this guy out there will never be helped. There simply will never be a program for this person to get out of the rut that he's in. But a woman with a Stanford degree may b…

The point is that a poor, uneducated man will still be ahead of a poor, uneducated woman when attempting to learn how to program; likewise, a man with a Stanford degree will have many more resources available to him than a woman with a Stanford degree. You can't pull examples from opposite ends of the spectrum, because of course it's not going to be equal.

How are you coming to this conclusion?

Re: Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers

#85

Post by icecreampain » Tue, Dec 10, 2013, 2:36 PM UTC

evincarofautumn wrote: post #73

rimantas wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion it is not a problem at all. But some want to see it as a problem. I wonder if the same people consider underrepresentation of females in garbage disposal or plumbing as a problem too.

Sex underrepresentation isn’t a problem itself. It’s a potential source of problems—if you saw some statistical outlier while profiling software, you’d pay more attention to it and verify whether it’s causing issues. Homogeneity of any kind tends to create bias and brittleness. When you ask women why they don’t program, there’s a mix of normal things like “I don’t find it interesting” and “I prefer X”; but many also…

"I don't feel welcome"? So what other people think is more important than applying oneself to a hobby / career that is intrinsically fair - computer's not being able to discriminate, talk or even think.

If the excuse for not programming is based on other people's opinions of oneself, then I just regard it the same as fat people saying that they're fat because society shames them into eating - instead of just being honest and saying that they calorie intake is much larger than their output.

Re: Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers

#86

Post by icecreampain » Tue, Dec 10, 2013, 2:38 PM UTC

SilkRoadie wrote: post #22

We need more women in the industry but I am not sure this is the way to do it. It is specifically for those "who cannot afford to live without an income during Hacker School." What does this mean exactly? To me it sounds like getting those who are poor or not well off into programming. I like that idea as much as getting more women into programming. What I don't understand is why this would be limited to women only.…

People explain why one would NEED more female programmers. Is it because you want a pair of tits to look at while you work or because females have some sort of magical ability to write code that no other gender can?

Re: Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers

#87

Post by icebraining » Tue, Dec 10, 2013, 3:19 PM UTC

cdurr wrote: post #43

xiaoma wrote: post #25

What about men who have financial need? This isn't an academic question. The tech industry is one of the very few left where large numbers of men from diverse backgrounds are doing well. For many who are struggling, it's the best shot they have. Men receive less financial aid for college and graduate with more debt... if they graduate. Women now outnumber men 3 to 2 in current graduating classes in the US. Far more m…

If you're a man, you're on your own because you obviously have privilege. Strong empowered wymyn need these grants because patriarchy. /s Women complain about the glass ceiling but they also have the glass cellar which keeps them from going to the bottom. More men may be at the top but they also over-represent the bottom of society and no one talks about that. What Google's doing here is a social engineering experime…

And people wonder why businesses are moving their manufacturing away from America

They aren't. Manufacturing in the US has been growing steadily since the 70s.

Re: Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers

#88

Post by icebraining » Tue, Dec 10, 2013, 3:24 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #76

ceol wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nothing is stopping women from becoming top-notch hackers. A lot is. Contrary to your comment, programmers have to interact with other people in order to participate in the industry, whether they're in college learning or have just taught themselves and are looking for a job. I've had quite a few female friends tell me about high school teachers and college professors who told them, straight to their faces, that pr…

> high school teachers and college professors who told them, straight to their faces, that programming was "for men" and they don't belong. There are still plenty of male employers who pass over perfectly qualified candidates just because they're women; plenty of male classmates who harass women with "get back in the kitchen" jokes. And what is this kind of announcements/programs doing to change that?

I believe the idea is counterbalancing negative with positive discrimination until the culture starts to change (which is more likely to happen if there are more women in the profession).

Re: Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers

#89

Post by belorn » Tue, Dec 10, 2013, 3:25 PM UTC

ceol wrote: post #56

belorn wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While a noble view, its is obviously not shared by Google. They would rather judge a woman on the basis that she is a woman.

They aren't just letting any and all women in while telling the droves of men to shove it. They're saying that if you are a woman who already qualifies for Hacker School who cannot pay for expenses while attending , then they will give you some money to help out. They aren't some bouncer at a club pulling the velvet rope back for everyone who checks the "I am a woman" box on the application.

Why would that matter? Surely, only those with expenses for attending hacker school can ask for a grant that repays expenses for attending hacker school.

Those with expenses for attending a chocolate factory visit can not ask for this grant. That should not be considered when judging who should be granted money regarding expenses for attending hacker school. The chocolate factory has nothing to do with this grant.

Re: Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers

#90

Post by jnardiello » Tue, Dec 10, 2013, 3:30 PM UTC

xiaoma wrote: post #25

What about men who have financial need? This isn't an academic question. The tech industry is one of the very few left where large numbers of men from diverse backgrounds are doing well. For many who are struggling, it's the best shot they have. Men receive less financial aid for college and graduate with more debt... if they graduate. Women now outnumber men 3 to 2 in current graduating classes in the US. Far more m…

All great points and i personally share your point of view. This isn't the kind of initiatives that will improve anyhow the situation of women in tech, it's just cheap marketing for Google and Hacker School. They are connecting "need-based situations" and gender, which is quite counter-productive as IMHO what women really need now is just fair opportunities.

To Hacker School: either you open funds to men (and here i'm talking personally as i applied, don't have savings and don't really know -if accepted- how i will make it - but ehi i'm smart and positive) or you are loosing, at least for me, a HUGE amount of credibility.