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Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

weeklystandard.com

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Re: Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

#81

Post by prostoalex »

stdgy wrote: post #42
epistasis wrote: post #5

The class divide is indeed huge, but I'm having trouble following some of the article's logic. The article seems to be saying that the upper class are the capitalists that have founded successful companies, and the middle class are all the engineers, and the lower class are the rest of society. A lot of the class divide seems to be most evident in housing costs. Where do these $1 million tract house valuations come f…

I believe the author would argue that these 'middle class' Valley engineers really aren't middle class at all, but rather upper class. They're likely up in the 95th percentile of earners. Though I struggle to come to terms with how to control for living costs and geographic inflationary trends. I would like to see an accounting of how wages across the employment spectrum are adjusted, as well. In my mind, if wages fo…

> They're likely up in the 95th percentile of earners.

For 95% of people in the Valley to earn less than average software engineering salary, 95% of people would have to be employed outside of tech specialties outside of tech companies. And that's not the case.

Re: Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

#82

Post by btilly »

prostoalex wrote: post #81
stdgy wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the author would argue that these 'middle class' Valley engineers really aren't middle class at all, but rather upper class. They're likely up in the 95th percentile of earners. Though I struggle to come to terms with how to control for living costs and geographic inflationary trends. I would like to see an accounting of how wages across the employment spectrum are adjusted, as well. In my mind, if wages fo…

> They're likely up in the 95th percentile of earners. For 95% of people in the Valley to earn less than average software engineering salary, 95% of people would have to be employed outside of tech specialties outside of tech companies. And that's not the case.

I read that as meaning "95th percentile nationwide" in which case no such conclusion can be drawn.

And FYI, what you are saying could happen with 90% of people employed outside of tech companies. (Because half of engineers earn below the median software engineering salary.)

Re: Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

#83

Post by qq66 »

malyk wrote: post #72
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #51

Interesting article. I wonder how much of the income disparity would be relieved if there was more room to build affordable housing, as in the "limitless" cities like Phoenix and Las Vegas where you can buy a nice 3 bedroom 2 bath for $150K. In Phoenix, there are also rich people and poor people, but not the stark contrast of Silicon Valley. Fewer billionaires, I think and also the neighborhoods are so vast and more…

The absolute last thing anybody needs is more horrible sprawling "cities" like those in the sunbelt.

What, specifically, is wrong with them?

Re: Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

#84

Post by mrobot »

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #17
nraynaud wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess they are pointing the fact that as soon as West Coast got access to the power through money, they did what the East Coast did: protect themselves from the plebe and create a new nobility with barriers to entry instead of using it for greater motives than simple personal accumulation.

And this is exactly why SV is not anything revolutionary, despite the insistence of PG and co. There is no Golden Age, just a bunch of old guys accumulating wealth by exploiting youthful naivete by cranking out a steady stream of technological toys designed to hook us, rather than serve us.

Isn't it different because those toys are part of our new people-as-a-product economy? To me it seems like this and the public-private-partnership blur factor make this different, and the walls are going to get a lot higher than in similar situations in the past.

Re: Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

#85

Post by prostoalex »

btilly wrote: post #82
prostoalex wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They're likely up in the 95th percentile of earners. For 95% of people in the Valley to earn less than average software engineering salary, 95% of people would have to be employed outside of tech specialties outside of tech companies. And that's not the case.

I read that as meaning "95th percentile nationwide " in which case no such conclusion can be drawn. And FYI, what you are saying could happen with 90% of people employed outside of tech companies. (Because half of engineers earn below the median software engineering salary.)

Oh, right you are.

Yeah, nationwide percentiles make as much sense as nationwide cost of living.

Re: Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

#86

Post by userulluipeste »

steven777400 wrote: post #66
userulluipeste wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Technology is an enabler. It also enables the nasty stuff. And the elites while more powerful than ever will also be more fragile and vulnerable." I'm trying to imagine the risk exposure with and without technology regarding the benefit for one's safety. In the past the rich people have always been exposed to robbery and other kind of crimes, and the only real solutions have been keeping a low profile or employing p…

This statement surprises me. I'll admit to being a little bit unstable perhaps, but when I look at people I know who have succeeded and don't need to work anymore, I struggle a lot with feelings of anger and rage. The "story" we're told is: work hard and you will succeed. But these successful people aren't working. They're just rich. Isn't that the whole idea? Passive income? But then I look and see, my labor is supp…

Now I understand this too. In time the humanity worked to combat the causes of more crude crimes which now are relatively rare. I guess the next step is to work out the remaining causes of violence, which is exactly what the article mentions - socioeconomic acceptance and being happy with beans.

Re: Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

#87

Post by webmaven »

wyclif wrote: post #68
ryandrake wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if there was room for affordable housing, who would build it? Home builders need to make a profit, and you do that by building $900K luxury townhomes, not by building $400K roach traps that need tax payer subsidy to break even. Do you think the tax payers lounging in their Atherton mansions give a crap about housing for poor and middle class people?

Whoa, wait. A $400K home is a "roach trap"??? Seriously? Seriously?

I think what was meant was a $400k building filled with roach trap apartments.

Re: Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

#88

Post by eli_gottlieb »

steven777400 wrote: post #66
userulluipeste wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Technology is an enabler. It also enables the nasty stuff. And the elites while more powerful than ever will also be more fragile and vulnerable." I'm trying to imagine the risk exposure with and without technology regarding the benefit for one's safety. In the past the rich people have always been exposed to robbery and other kind of crimes, and the only real solutions have been keeping a low profile or employing p…

This statement surprises me. I'll admit to being a little bit unstable perhaps, but when I look at people I know who have succeeded and don't need to work anymore, I struggle a lot with feelings of anger and rage. The "story" we're told is: work hard and you will succeed. But these successful people aren't working. They're just rich. Isn't that the whole idea? Passive income? But then I look and see, my labor is supp…

> You could tell me that, worldwide, I'm the 1%. I have a place to sleep (heated), food to eat (cooked), and the safety of a policed city. Boom, that's more than most of the world will ever dream.

Oh for God's sake. I'm fairly sure you're not actually in the worldwide top 1% just for having food, housing, and safety. Those things have actually been reasonably common throughout history.

Re: Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

#89

Post by walshemj »

cgore wrote: post #39
walshemj wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and compared to central London and the UK a 5 mill dollar house isn't that expensive. In my little commuter town in the UK on the same street as my doctors surgery there is a house going for just under 1.6 Million dollars

London is always going to be a worst-case scenario. You guys don't just have the journalist-making-a-hyperbolic-statement sort of royalty, you still have the for-real kind.

But the sort of houses they are calling sv crowd out for buying in the best location in SV are no where near the same as the equivalent location in the UK.

Re: Silicon Chasm: The class divide on America’s cutting edge

#90

Post by knowaveragejoe »

venomsnake wrote: post #58
knowaveragejoe wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's all within the realm of possibility, sure. But keep in mind that the affluent could simply buy a drone(or what-have-you) with all sorts of bells, whistles, and 10 years of improvements to security. The amount of work necessary to DIY something that even begins to approach the capabilities of something built by a company that knows what they're doing would be extreme - I'd argue insurmountable in many cases - e…

Isn't the silicon valley creed that a small group of skilled trained passionate about the product people can put huge multinational order of magnitude companies on their knees?

In the case of web services, sure.
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