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Why GitHub is not your CV

blog.jcoglan.com

81–90 of 135 posts

Re: Why GitHub is not your CV

#81
This post is horribly misguided to the point of being malicious.

Nobody is using Github as their only hiring filter.

On the other hand, Github is just about the best generic indicator of useful contributions of a coder back to society: visible code that someone else found useful. If someone wants to provide whomever is interested with more custom evidence of their work, that's great, and there is a way to link to your homepage for that. But Github stats do not lie, and the constrained profile format is a feature, not a bug.

Re: Why GitHub is not your CV

#82

(a) if someone I am interviewing has no idea what github is, that's a negative sign. this is completely unrelated to whether the person has time to contribute to projects (b) many great engineers have small forks of other projects. This shows me that: (i) they know how to find and adopt open source projects into their workflow, which will save me money (ii) when there is a bug or something that does not fit how they…

His theory is based in the premise that most GitHub (and FOSS) contributions are made by hobbyists in their free time. This is a common misconception of the FOSS economy.

Open source is not about donation, it is about cooperation and cooperation makes economical sense for a lot of business. Yes, there are the free-riders, but they are the copycats, we are the ones setting the pace.

Startups tend to be pushing the envelope, people from all genders from all over the world are being PAID to fix bugs and implement new features during the business hours, not over weekends. I do, I'm Brazilian and not white by north American standards, so this whole "github bias" thing is BS based on a naive assumption.

Re: Why GitHub is not your CV

#83
I found it interesting that the OA OA concluded that it biased to white men. I concluded something a little different.

I concluded it biases to: folks who most have the free time and the mindset and the kind of desperateness to be doing it. Or income-increasing ambition. (Like the kind that's strongest when you're unemployed or under-employed.) Therefore, it biases (again, only statistically) to young males around college or high school age. Most likely living in their parent's house, or in a dorm, or perhaps out in their own place but without a spouse, kids, sick family members, or any significant hobbies other than computers. And without a long established work history "out in the real world" and thus lots of fellow coworkers/clients/managers to help keep them fully employed out in that pesky meatspace. And I'm not saying this is a bad thing necessarily. Or that this pattern is universal and without exception. I'm just saying this is the pattern I see in the majority of cases. I didn't sense any inherent pro-white bias, or something pro-male. With avatar icons and code commits and pull requests the Internet truly doesn't know or care whether you're a dog. (Only whether you're a smart enough dog that can interact and deliver.) It was just pro-... a certain set of qualities. If a certain demographic is more likely to have those qualities, then, that demographic will be disproportionately present and active there on GitHub. It's not a conspiracy, just the physics and economics of it.

And there's nothing necessarily wrong with it. But it's important to realize it's at play. And to neither blindly assume that anyone without a GitHub presence, or an active one, or large one, is somehow incompetent/unqualified at software engineering. Or that everybody active on GitHub is a young white male in their parent's basement. Instead, treat each person as an individual. And realize that the entire world hasn't fully converted over to your wonderful new "rule of thumb" about hiring. Yet. And perhaps never will. And that too is not necessarily a bad thing.

Re: Why GitHub is not your CV

#84
GitHub isn't a CV, but it serves as a portfolio or set of work samples.

This has traditionally been important in hiring people for creative work, though prior to GitHub and similar sites there wasn't necessarily a single particularly good/common way for this to be done in the software development field.

Re: Why GitHub is not your CV

#85
post #76

> The demographic make-up of open source contributors is even more skewed toward white men than the software industry is What the fuck am I reading? Is this asshole author trying to inject racism into something that is inherently race-, age-, gender-, wealth- and location-agnostic? Github doesn't care who you are, what you code or in what language you code it. And yet here we are with a dumbfuck author who, for the s…

If you think the issue is about what Github "cares" about, you missed the point entirely. The point is that those who have the free time and opportunity to contribute to OSS projects are more likely to be of some means. Given the economic realities of this country, those with some means are statistically speaking far more likely to be white males than anything else (which is confirmed by the data). The conversation t…

This is a common misconception about the FOSS economy.

It is not about donation, it is about cooperation and net efficiency, and a good share of open source maintainers and contributors are very well paid to do what they do - they are not hobbyists donating weekends to the cause.

Re: Why GitHub is not your CV

#86
post #70
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The article does not say that conference talks, tweets, books, etc. should be used for hiring decisions and only GitHub should not. It says (right there at the end), that hiring is hard and any shortcut to try and get around that fact is wrong. It just so happens that "don't send us your resume, tell us your GitHub username" just happens to be the shortcut of the moment. Actually, Ashe has that on the Hire Me Page.…

There's a difference between a potential candidate putting their Github profile on their resume and having hiring managers filter out all candidates who do not have a profile.

I think this is the key question. Using the absence of a GitHub profile to dismiss candidates is one thing, but using the presence of a strong GitHub as a positive is a different story.

Re: Why GitHub is not your CV

#87
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is, the lack of diversity in the Open Source community is greater than the lack of diversity in CS education programs. You'd be less likely to hire a black female if you said "send us your GitHub profile" than if you said "show me your CS degree".

Why are females with CS degrees less likely to have Github pages than males with CS degrees? Is it because of the testosterone which tends to make males show off more than females? If not that, then what?

Did you read the linked article on the subject?

http://ashedryden.com/blog/the-ethics-of-unpaid-labor-and-th...

Here's some key points from it if it is tl;dr

Marginalized people in tech - women, people of color, people with disabilities, LGBTQ people, and others - have less free time for a few major reasons: dependent care, domestic work and errands, and pay inequity.

     Women are far more likely to be a primary caregiver of not only children, but other ailing and aging relatives. 59-75% of caregivers are women.1
    
     52% of women caregivers with incomes at or below of the national median of $35k spend 20+ hours each week providing care. The largest racial demographics in this group are black and hispanic2.
    
    Women perform more unpaid labor (most visible in domestics and child care) than men. On childcare alone, mothers spend more than twice as much time per day as fathers do.  On average, working fathers spend only 10min more per day on child care when they are not working, whereas working mothers spend nearly twice as much when not working3.

    Due to additional pay inequity contributing to less access to paid childcare, women of color perform far more child care than white women.

    Those with medical conditions requiring that they regularly visit medical facilities or perform other health-related activities such as getting additional sleep, regularly exercising, doing physical therapy, being away from backlit screens, not sitting in a chair for an extended period of time, resting their hands, etc are all affected by what becomes an extended workday.

    Those with a longer commute have less free time. Those who make less money can't afford the same housing costs as those that make more and are able to live in a city, so they are negatively impacted here again.

    Women earn 76-89% of men's wages. 6

    Women of color earn as little as 55% of white men's wages. 7

I know many women that either don't contribute to OSS because they've been dismissed for being women - being too pretty, not pretty enough, being forced to prove their competence more than their male counterparts because they're women. I've talked to women who use gender-ambiguous github names and don't post a picture of themselves as their avatar because of how quickly this happens. In addition, the sexual harassment, slurs, and other derogatory language that are used directly or indirectly at these groups of people causes many to not want to participate at all.

Additionally, there are very public instances of assuming someone is male. with a link to this hacker news post - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6712954

Some research about how women get 25 times more harassing messages then men:

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/4243412_Assessing_th...

More research about harassment of women online:

http://indiana.edu/~tisj/readers/full-text/15-3%20herring.pd...

Re: Why GitHub is not your CV

#88

> the demographic make-up of open source contributors is even more skewed toward white men than the software industry is, which is saying something What? > You just get what other people think is useful. Aside from which, GitHub displays a lot of useless stats about how many followers you have, and some completely psychologically manipulative stats about how often you commit and how many days it is since you had a da…

What does it say? That it's probably not a good measure of skill in any sense worth measuring, unless you think that 98.5% of the programmers worth hiring are men.

That it's probably not a good measure of skill in any sense worth measuring, unless you think that 98.5% of the programmers worth hiring are men.

I don't see how those two points are related. A measure can be good or bad independent of who you choose to measure by it.

Github(not necessarily just having an account but actually looking at what they have done) is a good measure of skill because it allows you to see the person's work output. You know exactly what they contributed to a project and what type of work they are interested in and are familiar with.

Now just because it is a good measurement of skill doesn't mean that it is a good hiring filter. The two are similar but not the same thing. A good hiring filter filters for skill but doesn't filter for other attributes like race and gender. It is kind of like saying measuring how much weight a person can lift is a bad measure for determining a person's strength because we only measured white guys. It is a good measure of strength, just misapplied if you are trying to find the world's strongest person.

Re: Why GitHub is not your CV

#89

I've been able to get through my career without LinkedIn or GitHub accounts as proof of my skills. I've pored my time and energy into the jobs I hold and hadn't gotten inspired to start contributing to OSS until just this week[1], so I have no publicly available proof of my skills. However, I can give in depth descriptions of interesting algorithms and data structures I developed and deployed related to: 1) Motion de…

Where can I learn more about #1? Sounds very interesting.

Re: Why GitHub is not your CV

#90
post #2

"OSS as a hiring filter biases your selection process toward white men"... not sure what to say. But I do find it funny that they don't think that Github should be used as a resumé but their "conferencing", tweets, books about diversifying and podcasts should do. Talkers or Makers? I write OSS on my free time because I feel like other alternatives might not be good enough. I spend a couple of hours in the morning, we…

> "OSS as a hiring filter biases your selection process toward white men"... not sure what to say. OSS as a hiring filter biases your selection process toward people who are either paid to do it at their current job, or who have few enough prior commitments in the rest of their life to be able to afford to do it outside of work. I'm not sure whether it biases towards white men or not, but I'm pretty sure it biases to…

As a condition of my employment, I had to sign a contract with my former employer that basically said since I was a software engineer with them, they owned all the software I wrote, even if I wrote it outside of my work hours. This obviously prevented me from working on any OSS.

Also please read my above comment. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6740089 The article links to another article about why it favors white men.

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